Talk:Renoir (surname)

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Jean Renoir (the movie director son of Pierre-Auguste Renoir) was as innovative and famous in his field as the painter was in his. I believe he should be included in the "Renoir (Surname)" page for that reason. Perhaps Pierre and Claude should not, but Jean definitely should.

I did not clarify any source documents for the other writer regarding the two Gabrielle Renoirs since neither has achieved the noteworthiness of being included in Wikipedia. I felt it was a moot point, though both were born in France. Perhaps that's why the writer's search has yielded no results. French birth certificates can only be obtained in person and by an immediate family member. There is no evidence that anyone outside the family has adopted the name.

Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by WikiWriterandEditor (talk • contribs) 17:25, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There actually is evidence that someone outside the Renoir family has adopted the name. Franklin County, OH, name change application, Case 388643, dated 4 Nov 1988, and approved by Probate Judge Metcalf the following month, records the assumption of the name Gabrielle Renoir by an individual not previously named Renoir. Hiernonymous (talk) 00:56, 17 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not remove tags requesting references without providing references. - Information concerning the origins of the spelling of the artist's name is interesting, pertinent, and reasonably fits in the article. However, the assertion that all individuals who spell their name like this are related is not established by the reference provided. The same phonetic mishap could have happened to others, or individuals unrelated to the clan could have adopted the name Renoir. In order to make a positive conclusion such as this in a Wiki article, you need to be able to support it; it is not sufficient to insert an assertion and argue that it should stand until disproven. Unless or until a source verifies that all individuals named Renoir are related to the artist, this assertion does not belong in a Wiki article. - Again, the insertion of the name "Gabrielle" in a list of names currently common in the Renoir family is a positive assertion that requires support. The family tree in question was not presented as support for a positive statement in a Wiki article, and its possible incompleteness does not establish the name "Gabrielle" in the family. I am in complete agreement that the family tree mentioned in the edit notes would be insufficient sourcing for a fact in the article requiring verification. If you intend to continue to assert the existence of the name "Gabrielle" as a common one within the family, the burden is on you to provide reliable and verifiable references in support. - Suggest the comments inserted into the article on the family tree belong on the discussion page, not the article. Hiernonymous (talk) 12:36, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Should this be moved to Renoir (disambiguation)?

It seems to me that the painter has both primacy and the most notability of any of the Renoirs listed here. Would it not make sense to redirect Renoir to Pierre-Auguste Renoir and place there a hatnote saying Renoir redirect here. For other individuals named Renoir, see Renoir (disambiguation)? I'll be bold and make the change. If anyone can think of a good reason for reverting it, please bring it up for discussion. Robert K S (talk) 08:33, 18 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Relationship of persons named Renoir

User has introduced language into article stating that all individuals named Renoir are related to Pierre Auguste Renoir. Have requested source for this assertion. Would ask that other users not delete tags calling for references until such have been provided. If no reference is forthcoming, believe the proper path forward is to delete the passage, not the tag. Comments? Hiernonymous (talk) 20:29, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

User continues to delete tags calling for references without providing references. This is an unusual claim that requires support beyond the assertion of the user. There appears to be at least one unrelated individual who has adopted the name and spelling Renoir, which suggests that the assertion is in error; nonetheless, proper sourcing is necessary. If there is disagreement about the standards applicable here, recommend discussing it here or seeking a third party rather than simply removing edits and tags. Hiernonymous (talk) 05:52, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted statement on relatedness of persons of name Renoir. User has provided story from Renoir memoir on origin of name; that information is interesting, useful, and pertinent. Extrapolation that all current Renoirs are related is not supported by reference and could be actively misleading. There appear to be individuals unrelated to the family who have adopted the use of the name/spelling Renoir, and such an extrapolation could cause confusion and imply a relationship that does not exist; no parties would want that to happen. Before reversing the edit and reinserting the speculative statements, would ask user to join the discussion. Hiernonymous (talk) 06:15, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

While we don't have an article on Claude Renoir (1901-69) as yet, he should be listed on the disamb page to avoid confusion. I have added citations to the article on Claude (1913/14-93) and an explanation to the article on Pierre (1885-1952) with the same citations. Since parenthesis on the two Claude Renoirs will only be applied when a second article is added, viz (producer) and (cinematographer), I have not used the standard practice to distinguish them. Philip Cross (talk) 20:24, 22 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted material

I deleted a bunch of unsourced material which also had other problems. It should be sourced before being re-inserted. See the WP:CITE page, especially on inline citations BE——Critical_{__Talk} 19:55, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]