Talk:Religion in Iceland

Untitled

I now leave this in the care of the good folks at Category:Wikipedians in Iceland.--T. Anthony 06:07, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

"but there isn't "organized secularism" comparable to the Human-Etisk Forbund of Norway." This is actually not true - Siðmennt (http://www.sidmennt.is/) is exactly such an association and was founded in 1990. :) Margrét Dóra

I'll correct that.--T. Anthony 07:23, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

While it does specify that church attendance is low and belief also likely is hard to come by, this article only lists membership in religious organizations, not actual religious beliefs. As such, it's not useful to those of us who want to determine how many Icelanders are, for example, atheists. If Iceland is like Norway, you're born into membership in the church and most people simply do not bother to void their membership, their lack of belief notwithstanding. Hence, that 82% of Icelanders are members of a certain church does not at all mean they conform to or believe that branch of Christianity. --Safe-Keeper 00:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

I second that I am an atheist but it's just too complicated and problematic to try to get signed out of the church (I live in Iceland). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.144.18.242 (talk • contribs) 23. August 2007, 01:05

Actually it does say or does so as best it can. According to the Eurobarometer 11% "do not believe there is any sort of spirit, God, or life force." Now it's possible those who said they believe in a "spirit or life force" are basically non-theist so you could put the number of nontheists up to 62%. Granted this may even be flawed but what people "really believe" is sometimes hard to measure.--T. Anthony (talk) 11:51, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Is it really? Print out this form, fill it in and mail it (or fax) to the National Registry. --Bjarki 19:43, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

In the chapter "2 Conversion to Christianity" it says: "Iceland initially converted to Christianity in a partial and diplomatic way. The compromise measure came about due to the Norse-pagan Þorgeirr Ljósvetningagoði"

However in Christianisation of Iceland (and this is how I was told it happened in school):

"He [the king of Norway] refused Icelandic travellers access to Norwegian ports and took as hostages several Icelanders then dwelling in Norway. This cut off all trade between Iceland and its main trading partner. Some of the hostages taken by King Olaf were the sons of prominent Icelandic chieftains, whom he threated to kill unless Iceland accepted Christianity." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.144.18.242 (talk) 23:05, August 22, 2007 (UTC)

There are de facto two articles about the "Christianisation of Iceland": (1) Christianisation of Iceland and (2) Bishop of Reykjavik (Catholic) - Couldn't these two articles combined to one ("Christianisation of Iceland")? Gecko78 19:45, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't see why not. Stefán Örvarr Sigmundsson (talk) 00:45, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Zuism: According to the Statistics Iceland source, the total number of adherents to Zuism is 2. This smacks of propaganda and POV by members of that religion. To be fair, if left in, that statistic should also be added. I'll be happy to do that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.87.131.132 (talk) 04:11, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Pie chart data

Since there seems to be some confusion, the pie chart data is from the official info on denominations that people are registered with (or not registered and their tax money goes elsewhere). Hence it is inappropriate to use Evangelical Lutheranism when the denomination is a specific church (Evangelical Lutheran Church aka Church of Iceland [the actual Icelandic names seem to be Þjóðkirkjan or "State Church" or "Hin evangeliska lúterska kirkja"). The two other Lutheran denominations that broke away from the state church in the early 20th century apparently use the same liturgy and hymnal but are theologically more conservative so almost certainly consider themselves evangelical Lutherans and rightful heirs of the earlier Evangelical Lutheran Church.--Erp (talk) 02:27, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Independent Baptists

Can someone have a look at the recent edit history and give some imput as to what stays. I have twice removed a promotional style listing that is purely a mnemonic about the religion's beliefs. It has been put back again so I don't want to run foul of the 3-revert rules. But I have just noticed that the new info is contrary to referenced info that was removed by the same editor. There is also a POV involved, one of the two editors mentioned that he/she is involved with the church.--Dmol (talk) 21:23, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Done, there are only a total of 50 registered baptists in two churches in Iceland. I found it interesting that one was dropped completely. Also should probably be Baptists not Independent Baptists --Erp (talk) 06:57, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Independent Baptist doctrine historically states a belief in Separation of Church and State and therefore does not encourage its attendees and members to register their faith with the government as important. Attendance in First Baptist Church is the most attended church on the peninsula week by week. Attendance is speaking towards attending for the purpose of worship outside of funerals, weddings, and other church exercises.

Document history about The Independent Baptist Church, First Baptist Church of Njarðvík Iceland. https://www.mbl.is/greinasafn/grein/143593/ This article reveals the history of the church acknowledged by the government of Iceland. Independent Baptists are not Southern Baptists. This is not conjecture, it is fact.

One may not like the beautiful history of the Independent Baptist Church, First Baptist Church, however, it is history and fact. One outside of the Independent Baptist Church holds no authority to speak on the topic of Baptist History. Please source the link here https://www.mbl.is/greinasafn/grein/143593/ where the government states that First Baptist Church is the first Baptist church in Iceland´s history. I think that is sufficient to negate any opposition to First Baptist Church's stated history by respected entities and authorities. Patrick Weimer, Pastor of First Baptist Church ~~Patrick Weimer, Pastor of First Baptist Church~~www.fbkiceland.is </ref> — Preceding unsigned comment added by SyncMaster203B (talk • contribs) 10:42, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Independent Baptists in Iceland

Please do not change information about the Independent Baptist Church in Iceland called Fyrsta Baptista Kirkjan / First Baptist Church. It has been a recognized Independent Baptist Church since 1967, though not registered until 1994 when we built our 13,000 square foot building in Njarðvík. Please only change information that you know to be factual about the work in Reykjavík. I know the Independent Baptists, Jeremy Gresham, John Hallman, Ben Wharton, and Andy Hansen, that started the Emmanuel Baptist Church in Reykjavík...we helped them for a short time in the work. You may not like our history, but please respect it and stop changing it. I personally have 25 years of Baptist history in Iceland. I am the 3rd pastor of the First Baptist Church of Njarðvík Iceland representing nearly 50 years of history. Please, Please stop changing this page. If you want to start a new heading called Southern Baptists in Iceland, then feel free to do so.

Thank you, Patrick Weimer/Patrekur Vilhjálmsson — Preceding unsigned comment added by SyncMaster203B (talk • contribs) 21:25, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

Please note that material should be sourced to be included and personal knowledge is not considered a source (personal knowledge written up and published might be). Is there a published document giving the history; ideally a scholarly document but failing that a news article or something. Note also that given the size of the Baptist congregations (we are apparently talking about less than 100 people total for both) and apparent unremarkability; they don't merit a large section. Erp (talk) 00:01, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

I did a literature hunt on baptists in Iceland a Southern Baptist article[1] from July 2014 indicates there is a small Southern Baptist church though no indication of whether it is registered. The founder is listed as Gunnar Gunnarsson. Erp (talk) 03:19, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Independent Baptist doctrine historically states a belief in Separation of Church and State and therefore does not encourage its attendees and members to register their faith with the government as important. Attendance in First Baptist Church is the most attended church on the peninsula week by week. Attendance is speaking towards attending for the purpose of worship outside of funerals, weddings, and other church exercises.

Document history about The Independent Baptist Church, First Baptist Church of Njarðvík Iceland. https://www.mbl.is/greinasafn/grein/143593/ This article reveals the history of the church acknowledged by the government of Iceland. Independent Baptists are not Southern Baptists. This is not conjecture, it is fact.

One may not like the beautiful history of the Independent Baptist Church, First Baptist Church, however, it is history and fact. One outside of the Independent Baptist Church holds no authority to speak on the topic of Baptist History. Please source the link here https://www.mbl.is/greinasafn/grein/143593/ where the government states that First Baptist Church is the first Baptist church in Iceland´s history.

I think that is sufficient to negate any opposition to First Baptist Church's stated history by respected entities and authorities. Patrick Weimer, Pastor of First Baptist Church ~~Patrick Weimer, Pastor of First Baptist Church~~ www.fbkiceland.is </ref> — Preceding unsigned comment added by SyncMaster203B (talk • contribs) 10:43, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Zuism

As far as I've been able to find out (I'm not an expert), Zuism in Iceland:

• is legally and technically a religion, as it is registered
• is not actually practised by anybody (maybe some source will appear?)
• is a protest rather than a tax dodge as such; if the money is no longer deemed "parish tax", it will still be collected.
• The "Zuist" movement objects to obligatory registration of religion and involvement of religion in state fuctions such as marriage; it's not just a tax movement, though that's what gets the publicity.
  

It seems commonsense to think that "Zuism" is related to Anzû/Zû, a figure in Sumerian religion, but I've found no source for this. Sources in early December 2015 spoke of 3,100 members, about 1% of the population, a significant number and much larger than many other recognised religions, most recruited in a 2-week period (and presumably likely to increase_Pol098 (talk) 12:30, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

Articles that have been published say that some adherents have organised worship and sing ancient Sumerian poems. It's not simply, or originally, a political or tax protest. Their former website, the Zuist Church website at zuist.org, was serious about Sumerian religion and didn't make use of the church tax strategy to gain converts. By the way... Christianity started similarly as a way to overcome social and political stagnation, and other problems of everyday life, in the collapsing Roman empire.--93.147.35.152 (talk) 19:58, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

Hi all; I wrote an article about Iceland's Zuists in the German-language Wikipedia (de:Zuism), but was under the impression - from recent news and the current Zuist web site - that the movement was intended as a protest against Iceland's church tax system from the start. That it may have started as an actual, serious attempt at introducing the worship of Sumerian gods to Iceland is interesting and I would like to modify the article accordingly - but are there any reliable sources I could quote? One Guardian article used here says that Zuism "has been taken over by new converts promising to refund all its members’ god taxes", and another one: "Zuism, based on the worship of Sumerian gods, registered as a religion in Iceland in 2013. But inactivity put it at risk of being de-registered by the authorities earlier this year. A group of citizens opposed to the state funding of religion mounted a takeover, promising converts that they would be refunded their parish fees." Is there any additional information somewhere to be found, preferrably regarding the original founders and their intentions? Gestumblindi (talk) 21:37, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

I just wanted to point out one important thing regarding Zuism in Iceland. The website zuist.org is not the official website of the religious organization Zuism Iceland, although the owners of the site claim it. This is an older website that has just been put up again, and it is run by former board members of Zuism that abandoned the organization before it was taken over by the present board and changed into what it has now become known for, a sort of protest organization against religious tax in Iceland. The present official website of the religious organization is zuism.is/zuistar.is (the same webpage, either one of the URLs work). There is a list of the present board members on zuistar.is/um.html where there is also the name of the present leader or "high priest" of Zuism Iceland, which is Ísak Andri Ólafsson. Agust Arnar Agustsson, that claims to be Lugal of Zuism in Iceland is not in any way affiliated with the present religious organization and has no power to claim this position or link himself with the organization Zuism in Iceland. As far as I know he is not even in control of any registered religious organizations in Iceland so his official position as a leader of any religious organization at all is ambiguous. As one of the board members of Zuism Iceland I'm not in position to change anything here in the article but I think this clearly needs revision. Snaebjorn (talk) 18:48, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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Judaism recognised, 8 March 2021

https://grapevine.is/news/2021/03/19/iceland-officially-recognises-judaism-as-a-religious-organisation-within-the-country/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.232.152.169 (talk) 21:51, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Demographics section

The demographics section should contain text as well charts/tables. It should be text first (especially useful for people with visual disabilities for whom charts and tables may be difficult or impossible to interpret). I would have the time chart next as that is small and easy to interpret (assuming eyesight). Then the tables. I would not include section headings as the captions are sufficient for that. I've made the first table, change over time, with two header rows. The second table needs some work. Erp (talk) 17:17, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

@Erp: I think the sections' headings should stay, since they allow the reader to go directly to the table they want to read. Regarding the textual description of the statistics, I think it should be present in the lead (indeed, in this article it is missing compared to other articles of the same type), but not repeated in the demographics sections, since the tables are self-evident. The stacked chart should stay below the quinquennial table, since it is intended as a representation of the latter, and not the other way around. What type of work do you think the quinquennial table still needs? Æo (talk) 17:32, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

I see the chart as more of an abstract which comes at the beginning and then for more details they look at the table. We definitely need text; not everyone can easily read tables, and, I think to have a section with no paragraphs is very bad unless the section title indicates such (e.g., Image Gallery). We can perhaps find some sources that discuss the demographics including perhaps about various beliefs as opposed to affiliation (e.g., creationism, god). https://icelandmag.is/article/00-icelanders-25-years-or-younger-believe-god-created-world-poll-reveals or more extensive Noack, Rick (2021-12-01). "In this country, literally no young Christians believe that God created the Earth". Washington Post. ISSN 0190-8286. Retrieved 2023-03-12. I'm looking at the second table to see how it could be improved. Erp (talk) 18:24, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

I've added a textual summary of the statistics in the introduction. This could be moved above the tables, but I think it is better to leave it in the lede, so as to match the format already established in other articles of the same type, also considering that it is the lede which works as the abstract of the article. Details about other things, such as strict belief in God as opposed to nominal adherence to given religions and churches could be added, but I think it would be better to find WP:RS which are not newspaper articles (I generally don't consider newspaper articles to be WP:RS), such as academic papers. Æo (talk) 18:36, 12 March 2023 (UTC)