Talk:Rejoice in the Lamb

NPOV

This article contains several POV adjectives, including "poignant", "clever", and "deeply moving." Phrases like "very popular with cat lovers" seem a bit unverifiable. --MarkBuckles 12:58, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

It can be verified by asking a few cat lovers. -- Ranthlee 17:15, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia:Verifiability

That said, I have deleted "poignant" and attributed the feeling "deeply moving" to "many listeners". Is that sufficiently NPOV?

I've also posted a long message to User talk:Hyacinth about questions regarding what POV is. -- Ranthlee 02:27, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

For any interested parties, a copious reponse to this has been posted at User talk:Ranthlee. The article and the opinions therein are not sufficiently neutral. See WP:NPOV for details on Wikipedia's policy regarding this. -- MarkBuckles 02:34, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Translation

I can't think why anyone would want to sing this in a different language but just to put it out there as a question, if anyone knows if it's been done another language that would be interesting Lawrence18uk (talk) 18:24, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Rejoice in the Lamb/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 09:06, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

I am going to start reviewing this today, though it may take another day to complete. --K. Peake 09:06, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Infobox and lead

• Infobox looks good!
• The choir is not sourced as being SATB anywhere in the body
  • I have added information about the choir into the "Composition" section. I think as per Wikipedia:WikiProject Classical music/Guidelines, this doesn't need a citation: "In general, it is permitted to make factual observations based on examination of the musical score of a work."
• Where is the "all created beings and things" part sourced in the body?
  • Have changed to "The poem, written while Smart was in an asylum, depicts idiosyncratic praise and worship of God by different things including animals, letters of the alphabet, and musical instruments". This is supported by the body.
• "of the fiftieth anniversary" → "of the 50th anniversary" per MOS:NUM
  •  Done
• Remove [1] per this info already being sourced in the body
  •  Done
• The lead is definitely lacking at this point; I would suggest adding info about the text/comp, what critics commented about the song and the different arrangements, in this order
  • I have expanded the lead as suggested, let me know what you think.

• This definitely looks a lot better, fab job! --K. Peake 06:24, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

History

• "as demonstrated in" → "as demonstrated with" and add the years of these two works
  •  Done
• "for the fiftieth anniversary" → "for the 50th anniversary" per MOS:NUM
  •  Done
• Wikilink St Matthew's Church, Northampton
  •  Done
• Should there be commas before and lists with more than two mentions or is this a different form of English than American?
  • Do you mean the Oxford comma? I would have thought tt doesn't matter as long as it's consistent throughout the article - which I can see it's not! Let me know which one you'd prefer and I'll change the article to everything is consistent.

• I would say not, as this article is about a piece for a British church. In this case, you should change on every occasion unless it is a list preceded by a colon. --K. Peake 06:24, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Have removed instances of commas before "and"s. Unexpectedlydian^♯4talk^‽ 20:16, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

• "intended for the fiftieth anniversary" → "intended for the 50th anniversary"
  •  Done
• Add the year of Sinfonia da Requiem
  •  Done
• "He was also impressed" → "Hussey was also impressed"
  •  Done
• Are you sure the correct quotation marks are being used for personal choice?
  • That's what's used in the source, do you think it should be quotation marks?

• Nope, this should be fine now I am aware of the full context. --K. Peake 06:24, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

• Add the year of Ave verum corpus
  •  Done Also added Mozart.
• "was visiting the United States" → "was visiting the US" per MOS:US
  •  Done
• Pipe W. F. Stead to William Force Stead
  •  Done
• "the eighteenth century poet" → "the 18th century poet"
  •  Done
• "Walter Hussey sent Britten a" → "Hussey sent Britten a"
  •  Done
• "within piece, such as "3." but shouldn't the plural "pieces" be used since you use such as?
  • Should be "Hussey sent Britten a questionnaire with clarification questions about the text used within the piece, such as" - I've changed it now.
• Is the note actually part of the original quote? If not, place in brackets after the quote finishes.
  • Yep, the note is part of the quote! He seemed quite eccentric!
• Last para looks good!

Text

• Img looks good!
• "from Jubilte Agno by Christopher Smart." → "from Jubilte Agno by Smart."
  •  Done
• Pipe Enlightenment to Age of Enlightenment
  •  Done
• Wikilink alcoholism
  •  Done
• "and lighthearted playfulness."" → "and lighthearted playfulness"." per MOS:QUOTE
  •  Done
• Wikilink taboo
  •  Done

Composition

• "Mystic Praise, Closing Hymn." → "Mystic Praise, and Closing Hymn."
  •  Done
• Wikilink Old Testament and Nimrod on the img text
  •  Done
• Pipe organ to Organ (music)
  •  Done
• Remove pipe on triads to avoid WP:SEAOFBLUE
  •  Done
• Any sentence with a direct quote used needs the appropriate ref(s) invoked at the end of it
  • I think that's done now.
• "of this section changes" → "of the section changes"
  •  Done
• Wikilink time signatures
  •  Done
• Again, is this the correct form of English to have commas before and or not?
  • See above regarding Oxford comma.
• "of this 'Opening Hymn' section" → "of the Opening Hymn section"
  •  Done
• "that the 'Hallelujah' section" → "that the Hallelujah section"
  •  Done
• Add the year of Symphony of Psalms
  •  Done
• Pipe triplet to Tuplet
  •  Done
• Pipe duple to Metre (music)
  •  Done
• Pipe semiquavers to Sixteenth note
  •  Done
• "with elegant quickness."" → "with elegant quickness"." per MOS:QUOTE
  •  Done
• "with a "mocking" quavers" → "with "mocking" quavers"
  •  Done Have altered this sentence slightly.
• Pipe register to Register (music)
  •  Done
• "that this passage is" → "that the passage is"
  •  Done
• Pipe pianissmo to Dynamics (music)
  •  Done
• "duties under God, and anguishes over how he can preserve the cause of God." → "duties under him, and anguishes over how he can preserve his cause."
  •  Done
• "This section of Rejoice in the Lamb can" → "The section can"
  •  Done
• "Imogen Holst compares this motif" → "Imogen Holst compares the motif" with the wikilink
  •  Done
• Add the year of Peter Grimes
  •  Done
• Pipe chromatic to Diatonic and chromatic
  •  Done
• "echoing the 'Hallelujah' passage" → "echoing the Hallelujah passage"
  •  Done
• Pipe bass to Bass (voice type)
  • Wikilinked first instance in this section.
• "in all twenty-six letters" → "in all 26 letters" per MOS:NUM
  •  Done
• Wikilink F major
  •  Done
• "the like...") drawing comparisons" → "the like..."), drawing comparisons"
  •  Done
• Pipe Music of the Spheres to Musica universalis
  •  Done
• "writes that this passage" → "writes that the passage"
  •  Done
• "of the 'Hallelujah" section" → "of the Hallelujah section"
  •  Done

Critical response

• Wikilink Church music
  •  Done
• Any sentences with usage of direct quotes need the ref invoked at the end
  • Think this is fixed.
• "Imogen Holst similarly writes that" → "Holst similarly writes that"
  • I'd rather leave this as Imogen Holst, as I'd imagine most readers would instinctively read "Holst" as being Gustav Holst, her dad.

• She is the only Holst mentioned in this article though and it is past the first mention by here, also remove the wikilink. --K. Peake 06:24, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
• I'm still nervous about people instinctively assuming it's Gustav Holst. as a demonstration, "Holst" redirects to Gustav Holst. Imogen Holst is nowhere near as famous. It's similar to Bach vs. CPE Bach, for example. How about keeping her full name for the first instance of each section? Such as in 'Arrangements'. Unexpectedlydian^♯4talk^‽ 20:05, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

• Fix MOS:QUOTE issues in this section
  • I've added attributions to the end of each sentence. Is there anything else I'm missing?

• No, I mean any cases where the full-stop is inside the quotation marks that is not a full sentence quoted needs to be fixed. --K. Peake 06:24, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

 Done Unexpectedlydian^♯4talk^‽ 20:09, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

• "Britten's setting of..." I don't think this sentence is needed, as you have only provided two reviews following the last overview by here
  •  Done
• "the usual categories..."." → "the usual categories..."" per the ellipsis ending the quote
  •  Done
• "Furthermore, according the review," → "Furthermore, according to the review,"
  •  Done
• "which admirable restraint." → "with admirable restraint."
  •  Done

Arrangements

• "An version of" → "A version of"
  •  Done
• "was arranged by Imogen Holst" → "was arranged by Holst"
  • Again, I'd rather this was left as Imogen Holst because "Holst" alone always refers to Gustav.
• Remove wikilink on BBC
  •  Done

References

• Copyvio score looks phenomenal at 8.3%!!!!

Citations

• Cite Archives Hub as publisher instead on ref 45
  •  Done

Bibliography

• Pipe Grove Music Online to The New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians
  • I think it already is? Let me know if I've missed something.
• Pipe Boosey and Hawkes to Boosey & Hawkes
  •  Done
• Pipe Faber & Faber to Faber and Faber on the first instance

 Done

• Remove wikilinks on Faber & Faber after the first instance

 Done

• Ditto for American Choral Directors Association

 Done

Final comments and verdict

•  On hold until all of the issues are fixed, after a quicker review than I expected! --K. Peake 20:28, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
  • Hey K. Peake, thank you for your swift and forensic review! I have addressed most changes but have left a few questions above. Let me know if you'd like me to clarify anything. Many thanks! Unexpectedlydian^♯4talk^‽ 22:12, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

• Unexpectedlydian Nice job on your swift and detailed response, I have done some copy editing and left responses in certain areas! --K. Peake 06:24, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

  More comments addressed, thanks :) Let me know your opinion on Imogen Holst. I think we should keep her full name wherever possible, just due to the fact that her dad is "the" Holst. Other than that, I think I've addressed everything. Unexpectedlydian^♯4talk^‽ 20:22, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

• ✓ Pass now, this should be fine being that only one wikilink is used for her! --K. Peake 07:22, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

For H is a Spirit

Nobody seems to have picked up the alternative meaning of the line "For H is a spirit"; there seems at first sight no reason to associate the letter H with a spirit. But read it as "For H is aspirate" and a secondary meaning becomes apparent. I don't know of any references, and it may even be original research on my part [which would astonish me!].

86.11.96.95 (talk) 13:28, 2 January 2023 (UTC)