Talk:Reginald West, 6th Baron De La Warr

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Untitled

I've done my best to reconcile multiple resources. I plan to re-check things this weekend, but I decided to be bold and start fleshing out the history. Corrections are welcome.

Cockayne says Elizabeth Greyndour was 23 or 24, and married in 1443. The nature of the error should be obvious; which is right, God knows. Be bold; you've seen both. Septentrionalis 20:58, 29 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Corrections and Verifications As Requested

Reynold West married twice, or possibly three times, and the Mary (b say 1433) who married Sir Roger Lewkenor (b say 1421, m say 1455) was not the daughter of Elizabeth Greyndour. Cokayne's Complete Peerage, Volume IV, p 154, is clear that Elizabeth Greyndour, late the wife of John Tiptoft, died without living issue. Many on-line genealogies cite the wrong Sir Roger Lewkenor as Mary's husband, making the line impossible because of time expanse. See Gary Boyd Roberts, Royal Descents of 600 Immigrants (2004), p 376, citing research of Martin Edward Hollick, Douglas Richardson, et al, suggesting intermediate wife Eleanor Percy was the mother of this Mary, but more likely an indefinite parentage is appropriate for this Mary. Best available on line summary of their research is here: http://histfam.familysearch.org/getperson.php?personID=I5923&tree=EuropeRoyalNobleHous The will of Roger Lewkenor the Younger (b say 1456, who truly did marry abt 1472-1474), son of Sir Roger Lewkenor and Mary West, gives the name of his wife, who predeceased him, as Ann. Genehisthome (talk) 03:07, 2 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Now I'm confused; Burke says Reginald West's wife Eleanor was the second daughter of Henry, Earl of Northumberland. Is that simply untrue? AlexTiefling (talk) 13:37, 27 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The explanations surrounding Mary West are flimsy and all lack clear dates. Their is a failure to notice Mary's sister Elizabeth West who married William Berkeley in 1466, who obtained a divorce the following year (presumably due to the Mowbray consanguinity. To suggest William Berkeley an obsessively proud and arrogant man, as ably demonstrated by his career and disinheritance of his brother for disgracing the Berkeley family, through his low marriage, should marry a maid of more than 33 years is palpable nonsense. Equally it is unlikely that Mary was a maid in a time frame "before 1469" Slovak Yankee when she is estimated as marrying Roger Lewknor. At the best these Roger Lewknor marriages are vague and at worse they simply do not accord with the standards of current knowledge and understanding relating to the marriages of aristocratic women in the 15th century, who were generally married by the age of 17. Regarding the wider implications of the Greyndour inheritance I doubt these commentators even know where the Forest of Dean is let alone have the slightest historical knowledge or grasp of the implications of the Greyndour inheritances and/or their relevance to the Berkeley/West/Tiptoft families during the Wars of the Roses. There is no reason why Elizabeth Greyndour should not be the mother of both Elizabeth and Mary West. Her estates were entailed on the male heir. She was fertile as proved by her dead baby by the Earl of Worcester, Reginald West certainly was. Elizabeth Greyndours nearest heir was her cousin William Walwyn, descended from her grandfather. The likely reason that William Berkeley married Elizabeth West was to make a claim over Elizabeth Greyndour's estates. That he sought a divorce was possibly an action precipitated through enmity with the more powerful and hated Earl of Worcester. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.183.118.181 (talk) 21:04, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]