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GA Review

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Reviewer: J Milburn (talk • contribs • count) 15:56, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I watched the last episode, but didn't see the rest. Thought it was a bit stupid, personally. Comments to follow. J Milburn (talk) 15:57, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review, I'll stick my comments in among yours. I've gone through and tried to fix the tense as I've gone through - it's what I get for editing an article before, during the airing of, and then after a show. Miyagawa (talk) 18:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Lead
  • "Celebrities including Jedward and David Hasslehoff have been involved in the rounds of the show where contestants must choose either red or black in order to pass to the next round, while the show has filmed on locations such as Battersea Power Station and the set of Coronation Street." Odd sentence. I'd say it's best to state the premise of the show before talking about celebrities.
  • There's some real tense issues- you keep batting from present tense to past tense. This is a real problem- it makes the article rather hard to read.
  • "Out of the first seven episodes, four millionaires have been made." Without an explanation of the nature of the final round, this seems out of place.
  • "ITV Network (ITV1/STV/UTV)" I've never seen that formatting before. Is there something in the MoS about it?
  • "The current show is a joint production between Syco TV and ITV Studios, and is initially broadcast on the ITV Network (ITV1/STV/UTV) nightly over the course of seven nights from Saturday to the following Saturday with the exception of the Tuesday night." Long, complex sentence
  • "It it presented by Ant & Dec, while the show has featured several Cowell related music acts." Copyedit? Also, tense switch in one sentence
  • "Ratings were initially seen as a success" That's a strange way of saying it
  • "Reviews of the series were universally critical." Shift this down in the lead? Currently between two sentences about ratings
Format
  • "with those that gamble on the correct colour proceeding to the next round." Not gonna be clear what this means to a lot of people
  • "the independent adjudicator" This person has not been introduced yet. Change to "an independent adjudicator"?
  • When discussing "duel", I think the whole "points" thing just confuses the issue. Alternatively, perhaps you could change the last sentence to something like "The first player to reach 4 points, that is, to have all 4 sections of their colour revealed, moves on to the final round to play for £1,000,000.[7]"
  • I think the structure of this section could be improved. How about moving the last para to second place? You also need to make a little more explicit the first eight rounds vary from week to week. It'd also be helpful to say how many stages are in each "section" (arena/location/studio)
  • "and then the remaining contestant span the wheel to try to win £1 million." Not needed
  • Are you going to attempt to list every location/game? If so, a table would be good. If not, why mention those ones in particular?
  • "which was used for filming scenes in the Harry Potter film series.[14]" So what?
Production
  • "Mayfair Hotel, London" Link?
  • "There is no involvement with FremantleMedia, who created the first pilot in 2003." How about simply "FremantleMedia was not involved" or something?
  • "was contacted by Cowell to propose the idea" To tell him to propose the idea, or to have the idea proposed to him by Cowell?
  • "to take the show international" Colloquial
  • "Other Cowell related acts are due to appear on the show; including Leona Lewis on the first episode,[3] who was given £100,000 by Cowell prior to the show for a makeover as part of an investment for the show.[21]" Clumsy
  • Para starting "ITV have also signed deals" is a good example of the tense problems in the article
Reception
  • "This enabled the main ITV channel to beat BBC One in the primetime ratings overall, 23.3% to 21%, despite the launch of series 8 of Strictly Come Dancing on the BBC channel with Red or Black? individually placed behind both Strictly and Doctor Who, with the overnights for both being 7.6 and 6.0 million, respectively." Hard to follow
  • "Overall through the week the main ITV channel has won in the primetime battle on five out of the seven occasions, a turnaround from the previous week where it only won on a single evening." Tense, "primetime battle"?
  • "Criticism and controversy" Is not a very NPOV title, especially as you open with praise
Hadn't thought about it that way - renamed it to "Media response". Miyagawa (talk) 18:57, 21 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "overshadowed by stories relating to £1 million winner Nathan Hageman as it was revealed that he had a criminal background, initially being said to a 5 year sentence for breaking into a man's house and assaulting him." If that's not true, we have a real BLP problem- it should be stripped or made clear more that this was not true
  • "showed who he was" Revealed his identity?
  • I'm concerned about the use of Unreality TV and OnTheBox as sources- what makes them reliable, especially considering these are critical of living people?
References, external links, images and so on
  • I'm seeing fairly heavy use of Unreality TV- I've written a number of articles on reality stars and avoided it, personally. Why do you believe it is reliable?
  • "Monterosa Creates Live Play-Along Game For ITV’s Red Or Black" Decap?
  • "The Sun Demand Red or Black Winner Give Back His Prize. Double Standards?" If it is reliable, decap?
  • "Jackpotjoy's suite of four Red or Black? games" Italics? Formatting?
  • The graphs could do with some refs on the image pages
  • Just noticed that you took the arena image- did you take part in the show? Don't feel you have to answer, just me being nosey.

The sources not mentioned and the images check out. There's potentially a very good article here, but the prose is a little choppy and the use of some references is questionable. J Milburn (talk) 16:54, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Second look through

[edit]

I'm taking another look through the article, noting your previous comments.

  • It'd be good if the first paragraph noted the premise of the game, before launching into the specifics of the rounds. Or perhaps something like "split into 8 rounds; in each round, the player must choose either black, or red, with those who choose incorrectly being eliminated".
  • "Ratings were initially seen as a success" This is a strange phrase
  • "Reviews" The link isn't needed
  • "and additional criticism was leveled at the show when it was found that the first winner of the £1 million prize, Nathan Hageman, had a criminal record and on further investigation by the British media was discovered to have lied to the makers of the show about the nature of the offence" Part of a long sentence, the writing isn't great
  • "The current show is a joint production" Again, tenses
  • "The show consisted of 10 stages, with contestants having a choice between red or black in each stage before a winning colour was chosen for that round.[2] The rounds were split into three stages." Round/stage
  • "Contestants then" Only the winning contestents
  • The first and second paras of the "format" section seem to say the same thing in different ways
  • Duel para still has some tense switches
  • Same for the para on the final round
  • "Social TV company Monterosa were contracted to create a play along game that could be played by viewers online whilst watching the show, and compete with Facebook friends." This needs rephrasing
  • "in despite of" I don't think that makes sense
  • "primetime battle"?

The writing's still a little choppy in places, but it's coming together. This is approaching GA status. I've made a few more edits. J Milburn (talk) 21:22, 24 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Third look through

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I'm sorry, it's really not OK that I've left you waiting on this for about a month. I've just found myself incredibly busy; Wikipedia's sadly taken something of a back seat.

  • "Red or Black? is a British television game show that is broadcast on ITV. Developed by Simon Cowell, it is the most expensive game show in television history, with a £15 million budget." Why present tense here?
  • "and the final round where the winner chose a colour on a giant wheel similar to that used in roulette. During the first series, four millionaires were made." Link these to mention that choosing correctly in the final round gives you a million?
  • "that the first winner of the £1 million prize, Nathan Hageman, had a criminal record." For BLP reasons, can we please have a cite in the lead?
  • I think you need to say how it is decided what the "correct" answer is earlier in the article.
  • "of at the The Herald,"

If you make these small fixes, I'll be happy to promote. If you're willing to go for the slog, I reckon this one actually has a chance at FAC. Three thoughts in that regard:

  • The prose is a little choppy in places. It's good enough for GAC, but getting a thorough copyedit would hopefully ready it for FAC. Alternatively, leave it a few months, then take another look.
  • Double check the references- there are at least a couple where the formatting is very slightly off, or more Wikilinks could be given, or something
  • Consider expanding the episode-by-episode breakdown to list the six unique tasks in each one. Alternatively, consider adding a new table to "rounds", or listing in-prose every round.

As I say, these last three are ideas for if you're sending this FACward. For GA status, the five notes above will be enough. Thanks, and sorry again for taking so long to get back to you about this review. J Milburn (talk) 08:13, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks for the review and the FAC notes - I hadn't really thought about taking it through there, but I'll give it some serious consideration. Going to take a little Wiki break after the cup through November (although knowing me, it'll be limited access rather than none!) and then I'll come back to it fresh in December. Miyagawa (talk) 12:12, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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