Talk:Red Army Choir

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This should redirect to Alexandrov Ensemble

I believe the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC of this term, and what the vast majority of people are looking for, is Alexandrov Ensemble. As there are only two topics that link to each other on their respective articles (through Template:About), I don't think a disambiguation page is even necessary. Correct me if I'm wrong though, I've never heard about Rosgvardia Academic Song and Dance Ensemble being called "Red Army Choir". -Vipz (talk) 03:19, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Sorry but I don't think any of us can speak for the vast majority of people worldwide. Many people of the older generation here in the UK remember the last successful visit of the Alexandrov Ensemble to London in the 1960s. At that time its name was almost always translated in English-speaking countries as Red Army Choir. All the recordings sold at that time held the title Red Army Choir. If you search for Red Army Choir on YouTube, you get a lot of examples of recordings titled as Red Army Choir.

As for the other ensemble calling itself Red Army Choir - well, there was a long-standing dispute about which ensemble should use that name when touring outside Russia. About a decade ago there was a court case in Moscow about it. Court cases there do not always report the result - or they don't report it clearly or in full. There were strong feelings about it, because the Alexandrov Ensemble had always represented a higher quality of performance than its rival. Therefore this disambig is really useful, and certainly should not be removed just because some people have never heard the title "Red Army Choir" used in their own country. Storye book (talk) 09:10, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As the current articles are written, Rosgvardia Academic Song and Dance Ensemble does not use the alternative name "Red Army Choir", which leads weight to Alexandrov Ensemble being the primary topic. I've added the missing name to the former. Widefox; talk 11:51, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not add back names that should never have been used, to institutions who should never have used them. This was a highly contentious matter, and the present situation, where Rosgvardia has stepped back with dignity, should be left alone. The present disambig should be left alone, however, to prevent the old controversy from starting up again. The present situation has kept the peace so far. Storye book (talk) 18:19, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User:Storye book There's two problems with your revert on this dab:

1. Please see WP:MOSDAB - there should only be one link per entry, and other uncontroversial things I've fixed, which now need doing again

2. Here [1] you state Rosgvardia Academic Song and Dance Ensemble should not be referred to by the term in this dab, which then makes the entry here inconsistent. One way or another that needs making consistent, and the discussion on the name is appropriate at the article talk, rather thanhere.

An obvious way forward, as I suggest above is to make this title redirect to the primary topic, and have a hatnote explaining at that site. Then, there is no need for this dab per WP:TWODABS. Widefox; talk 20:20, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If you would like to change the Red Army Choir page to a redirect to Alexandrov Ensemble, that would be fine by me, because the Alexandrov Ensemble has been known outside the USSR then Russia as the Red Army Choir since it began touring. The other ensemble took up the name far later. To represent the present situation regarding the use of the name, the hatnote over the Rosgvaria article needs to say: "for Red Army Choir, see Alexandrov Ensemble" (or similar wording).

However, the Rosgvaria group may at some point protest that the hatnote is a political comment, and it might start an argument. At the moment, the situation on WP regarding the "Red Army Choir" name is peaceful. That is why I tried to maintain the disambig page as it was. So, if it keeps you happy, I agree to the redirect, but I suggest that if there is a political backlash, then we should consider reinstating the disambig. Storye book (talk) 09:27, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Just to separate the two aspects:

1. This dab is solely for navigation, and there's a clear primary topic based on the above discussion. Therefore I'll make the change and eliminate the dab and replace with two hatnotes per above.

That will also solve the astonish (content) aspect, as both articles will have hatnotes

2. As for the content aspect, that's offtopic here but see WP:OFFICIAL / WP:OTHERNAMES for how little emphasis we put on official names, and "consistent with usage in reliable English-language sources". I'm sure readers would prefer to be informed about the name issue in the second article, rather than currently it not being mentioned. Widefox; talk 11:26, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much for doing a very discreet and tactful job. Hopefully we will have no trouble now. Fingers crossed. Storye book (talk) 17:18, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]