Talk:Recognition of same-sex unions in Asia

Georgia

I'm pretty sure Georgia has a constitutional ban. The president's veto has been overturned I believe. Letters From Adi (talk) 03:39, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Europe's page also has it under constitutional ban. Letters From Adi (talk) 04:00, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

ISIS

Considering ISIS has been completely driven out of Iraq, shouldn't the map be made to show that? Letters From Adi (talk) 03:59, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Cambodia

Cambodia 's constitutional ban on same sex marriage was repealed in 2011. Letters From Adi (talk) 04:04, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No, it wasn't. The wording was modified. Ron 1987 (talk) 16:00, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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Vietnam

Vietnam is colored light blue on the map, implying that it recognizes unregistered cohabitation. However, Vietnam does not have specific unregistered cohabitation laws. I can provide you with a list of reliable sources.

Kwamikagami claims that: "In Vietnam, you have to register where you live, so that is quite literally registered cohabitation." (citation needed)

First of all, what does "registered cohabiation" mean? Perhaps what they meant is "registered partnership", or maybe "unregistered cohabitation". The term "registered cohabitation" does not exist.

Besides, all content must be verifiable. In the English Wikipedia, verifiability means other people using the encyclopedia can check that the information comes from a reliable source. Anyone can leave a note on the talk page asking for a source. Any material that needs a source but does not have one may be removed.

The accuracy of a statement may be a cause for concern if:

It contains unlikely information, without providing suitable references;

It has been written (or edited) by a user who is known to write inaccurately on the topic;

It contains information which is ambiguous and open to interpretation, either due to grammar, or opinionated wording;

There are reliable sources supporting two or more different claims.

Kwamikagami's claim about "registered cohabitations" in Vietnam is somewhat misleading. A list of reliable sources are presented below:

The first source states that:

"While the ruling, which came into effect on New Year’s Day, allows same-sex couples to wed without fear of criminal prosecution, Vietnam’s Communist Party stopped short of extending ANY rights or privileges to same-sex couples — the government won’t recognize same-sex unions nor provide legal protection to them."

Source: https://www.metroweekly.com/2015/01/vietnam-removes-same-sex-marriage-ban/

The second source states that:

"The law no longer specifically prohibits same-sex marriages, but says they aren't recognized by the government. It does not allow same-sex partnership either, although the issue has been open for discussion during many house meetings."

Source: http://thanhniennews.com/politics/vietnam-allows-surrogacy-within-families-denies-samesex-marriage-27502.html

The final source states that:

"There is a major flaw in the law. According to Clause 2, Article 8 of the new law, although it allows same-sex weddings, such couples are neither recognized nor protected under the law. Although Vietnam abolished its ban on same-sex marriage, the law has a very limited effect in practice. If not recognized by the state, such marriages will not be protected by law for matters such as personal and property rights."

Source: https://thediplomat.com/2020/02/the-fight-for-lgbt-rights-in-vietnam-still-has-a-long-way-to-go/

The claim that Vietnam recognizes same-sex unions is MISSING CONTEXT, because without additional information it could be misleading. It is true that Vietnam abolished its ban on same-sex marriage and allowed symbolic same-sex weddings. However, same-sex couples are neither recognized nor protected under the law.

Vietnam doesn’t recognize same-sex unions so it should be changed to gray. Please, update the map. Provide sources of the opposite if you disagree.

Partially-recognized states

According to international law and Wikipedia itself, Taiwan is a partially-recognized state. Kosovo is recognized by 101 states, and Palestine is recognized by 138 states. Both states listed in the section "Partially-recognized states". Taiwan is recognized by 13 small countries such as Haiti, Nauru, Tuvalu etc. None of the Permanent members of the United Nations Security Council recognize Taiwan. In contrast, Kosovo is recognized by the US, the UK and France. Palestine is recognized by China and Russia. So why is Taiwan being treated differently from Kosovo and Palestine? Is it a sacred cow? No. Fact remains a fact. Cyanmax (talk) 21:03, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Replied on your talk page, but here is great too. Current Wikipedia consensus is to refer to Taiwan as a country. It's in the lead of Taiwan. The request for comment where this decision was made can be found here. Consensus is very important.

Look, I'm no expert in geopolitics, but as I'll give this a go. No nation that wants to do business with China wants to take the step of declaring Taiwan a country. That is very different than Taiwan not being treated as a country by nearly everyone in the world. UN member status is not the be-all end-all. That's my understanding anyway, and I'm grateful for the experts in the topic who can talk at length about this topic much more clearly than I. The Savage Norwegian 04:41, 20 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The whole point of that lengthy, detailed, complex RfC was to establish consensus, so we don't have to relitigate it every time on articles which have little to do with Taiwan. Cyanmax, if you want to redesignate Taiwan across the whole of Wikipedia, take it to the Talk:Taiwan. Jdcooper (talk) 21:29, 20 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Taiwan

Thesavagenorwegian did u even look at my edits? I didn't change the definition of Taiwan. If you look carefully, Taiwan is still defined as a country. I moved Taiwan to the right section per [1], but it's still defined as a country with marriage, and I didn't change that. So your tantrum here seems absolutely illogical and ludicrous. Cyanmax (talk) 05:49, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This issue is dealt with in the section immediately above this one. Simply: this issue has already been settled with Wikipedia consensus elsewhere, so we follow it. And please, be civil. Jdcooper (talk) 12:14, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I suggest you read more carefully. Stop trying to change the subject. The consensus was to call Taiwan as a country. I agreed to that. I am not opposed to referring Taiwan as a country. I didn't change the wording. If you look carefully, Taiwan is still defined as a country. Don't pretend you don't understand what I'm talking about. Just answer the question. Are Kosovo, Palestine, Taiwan countries with limited recognition? Yes, they are. If u disagree, explain why. Cyanmax (talk) 14:22, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The consensus is to call Taiwan a country, not a partly-recognized state, not a country with limited recognition. That's the precedent. If we want to start including *all* states with limited recognition, we will have to add nations like China, Israel, Armenia, South Korea. We call all of these countries all the time without disclaimers and qualifiers. The "partial recognition" of these states is trivia, not something to be brought up at every article, including Recognition of same-sex unions in Asia. The consensus we keep pointing to refers to the undisputed de-facto status of Taiwan as a country and that UN recognition is not the only type of recognition that factors into being a country. The Savage Norwegian 17:46, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Then I have every right to move Kosovo above to different section in Recognition of same-sex unions in Europe article. Kosovo is fully recognized by 104 countries. Unlike Kosovo, Taiwan is recognized by only 11 countries, and if we include so called "unofficial diplomatic relations" it's still only 59 countries.

"Look, I'm no expert in geopolitics, but as I'll give this a go. Taiwan not being treated as a country by nearly everyone in the world." - That's what u said.

Are u really saying 59 countries is the "nearly everyone in the world"? If u say Taiwan is a country, but Kosovo and Palestine are not, then it only shows u are biased. Of course, I understand that Taiwan, Israel, Armenia, India, Nepal and some other countries are the sacred cows of Wikipedia. However, critical thinking and common sense always come first. Therefore, I have every right to move Kosovo to different section using your words as an excuse. Cyanmax (talk) 18:18, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Honestly, as someone who hasn't been in this conversation, it seems clear that this issue is already settled. It's an established consensus on Wikipedia: we treat Taiwan as a country across the site. That consensus has already been linked in this talk page--if you need it again, it's here. You'd have to start a new RfC in Talk:Taiwan to overturn that decision.

Not sure where consensus is on the other nations you've brought up, and moving some of them may be reasonable if we can show where consensus has landed. but the Taiwan issue seems to be pre-settled. ~Malvoliox (talk | contribs) 22:59, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]