Jump to content

Talk:Real Programmers Don't Use Pascal

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Origins

[edit]

This URL has a conflicting version of the origins of the article and in particular the location and identity of the author. It seems the Wikipaedian who has submitted this brief article has looked at but one source and there are currently over 350,000 references to it online. I suggest your Wikipaedian do a bit more research. http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~elf/hack/realmen.html

Ed Post, Graphic Software Systems, P.O. Box 673, 25117 S.W. Parkway, Wilsonville, OR 97070. Copyright (c) 1982 -- But note footnote 9 "Datamation, July, 1983, pp. 263-265." and my comments in the next subsection section. --PBS (talk) 11:02, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

paper that surfaced in Bedford unsigned

[edit]

For those of you who read this and and don't know the old way that email addressed were formed was right to left (the opposite way to the way people are used to today) So fu@bar would be bar!fu and if the email was relayed to the recipient each leg of the path would be added on to the address, (so a reply could be routed back) therefore if an email went through a couple of servers called punch and judy the address would be judy!punch!bar!fu (see UUCP for mail routing)

A version of this essay was published in NJW/SOFT/2/84, That version came with the section called Acknowledgement that contained the following:

I would like to thank Jan E., Dave S., Rich G,. Rich E., for their help in characterising the Real Programmer. Kathy E, for putting up with it, and ATD!AVEDS' MARK for the initial inspiration.

And another line tagged on the end added by another person.

[DEC hacker note] This came from a paper that surfaced in Bedford unsigned. The author apparently is a Unix hacker (note the node name.) Does anyone know where It came from?

Here is a source (http://www.hermanmol.nl/herman/realpgmr.htm by Steve Woodford - May 14. 1987) that mentions some of this information.

This source also mentions the DEC hacker. It also carries footnotes that was not in the photocopy of the NJW version I saw, but note footnote 9 "sdcarl!lin, "Real Programmers", UUCP-net, Thu Oct 21 16:55:16 1982" which is before the publication date of "Datamation, volume 29 number 7, July 1983." which suggests that at least some of this was doing the rounds earlier than the Datamation and may have been on the usenet.

Now the publication date the NJW (Feb 84) is later than Datamation, volume 29 number 7, July 1983, and it may be that they published a copy that someone had made of the Datamation article, but it is also possible that the Datamation article was also a copy of the "paper that surfaced in Bedford unsigned". Which is not to say that the author was not written by Ed Post, just that it is not as clear as this Wikipedia article makes out where it first surfaced. --PBS (talk) 11:02, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

usenet

[edit]

A search of the web on sdcarl!lin returns a number of hits including this one (which gives his/her name as L. Seltzer, Dept. of Music, Univ. of Calif.) from there one can to view profile which returns this and in that list is Real Programmers net.jokes (Received Oct 23 1982, Posted: Thu Oct 21 16:55:16 1982)

Real programmers don't wear neckties.
Real programmers don't wear high heeled shoes.
Real programmers arrive at work in time for lunch.

A search of that news group net.jokes returns more prototypes:

Oct 17 1982, 8:34 am By avsds:mark

Real Programmers use the front panel switches on the machine to toggle in UNIX (from memory) first thing in the morning before starting work.
Real Programmers know that thumping the terminal usually causes the computer to respond quicker, when there are several hundred users on the system.
Real Programmers write compilers which leave the user waiting until right at the end of a 1/2 hour compile before admitting that there was an error on the first line.
Real (Computer Graphics) Programmers carry great hefty magnets around with them to demagnetize graphics tablets, and then wonder why their express service bank card doesn't work any more.

This is from COMPUTERWORLD (with a few local additions)

Real programmers can't spell quiche.

...

  • Nov 20 1984, 9:32 am by Matt Crawford repost of Source: usenet: utastro!nather, May 21, 1983 and a search there returns that utastro!nather was Ed Nather, Astronomy Dept., U. of Texas, Aus

--PBS (talk) 12:41, 30 June 2008 (UTC) -- edited PBS (talk) 14:28, 6 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Some more from other news groups at around the same time:

Date: 3 February 1983 01:47 EST
From: Richard P. Wilkes <RICK @ MIT-MC>
Subject: Real Programmers
Thought that you all might find this interesting...
'Real Programmers' Don't Eat From Vending Machines
by Jean Tricebock, ComputerWorld Nov 1, 1982
  • May 27 1983, 4:43 pm in net.micro.cpm and cross posted to net.micro The subject line is "Real Programmers Don't Eat Quiche"

Subject:Real Programmers Don't Eat Quiche
From: Frank J. Wancho <FJW@mit-mc>
The subject file has apparently been floating around various nets recently, and a copy came my way today. It is available on MC in FJW;REAL PRO, and is much too large to mail (sorry). It is a very well-written and thoroughly enjoyable "dissertation" - it made my day! --Frank

  • Jun 4 1983, 9:39 pm a thread of 3 posts in net.micro.cpm started by Jerry E. Pournelle called "Real Programmers Don't Eat Quiche".
  • Jul 26 1983, 3:40 am in the group net.lang.pascal quotes "Real Programmers Don't Use Pascal", E. Post Datamation, July 1983, p263. But a third entry in the thread says "Of course, this first appeared over Usenet!"

Another observation Dates:

  • The Story of Mel was first published on the usenet in net.jokes on 21 May 1983. There is a website that had the text to Real Programmers it also has a version of The Story of Mel which unlike many other versions includes in it an email address (but it is an email address that was in use at the time) and that version starts:

A recent article devoted to the macho side of programming ("Real Programmers Don't Use Pascal," by ucbvax!G:tut) made the bald and unvarnished statement

Real Programmers write in Fortran.


Maybe they do now, in this decadent era of Lite beer, hand calculators ...

See May 17 20:58:16 1983 newsgroup net.usenix

From: G:tut
...Bill Tuthill. Programmer and Consultant with Computing Services, U C Berkeley. ...

As Datamation article did not come out until July 1983, the Story of Mel must either be referring to the piece published somewhere else before it as published in Datamation or the line must refer to a different article. -- PBS (talk) 06:33, 17 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Also The realest programmer of all net.jokes posted by Matt Crawford 20/11/1984 'I repost here (with permission!!) an article which appeared quite some time ago, as these things are reckoned, in that well-respected electronic journal of humor, "net.jokes" -- Source: usenet: utastro!nather, May 21, 1983'

-- PBS (talk) 11:27, 1 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Real_Programmers_Don%27t_Use_Pascal&oldid=1205019833"