Talk:Rape in India/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Copyright problem removed

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/25/health/india-dangerous-country-women-survey-intl/index.html, http://www.atimes.com/article/rapes-go-unreported-india/. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)

For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 14:14, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

@Diannaa: and he restored copyright violation for 4th time even after at least 2-3 warnings for it. I think a block is clearly warranted. Shashank5988 (talk) 14:24, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

This is his first incident of violation of the copyright policy so I will not be blocking. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 14:36, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Also check this this link. He copied pasted from that source. Shashank5988 (talk) 14:27, 23 December 2018 (UTC) 

No I did not. I edited the language after it was brought up and the edits clearly show that. I also added new references for support as well. You on the other hand keep removing well sourced material and try to hide behind copyright violation to cover up your bias. In fact your own tool link shows there is no violation. ContentEditman (talk) 14:28, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

There's nothing wrong with that version; I already checked it. Numerical statistics are not copyrightable. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 14:36, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

@Diannaa: Can you please add back the removed sections that are not in violation? I believe this would be best so there is a 3rd review to clear up out disagreements. Much appreciated. ContentEditman (talk) 14:39, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

No, I am not going to do that, because that might give the impression that your addition is official or approved by an admin. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 14:44, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

I understand, thanks you. I made a request on the Third Opinion board, maybe that is best? ContentEditman (talk) 14:49, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

@Diannaa: It seems that this editor restored the content from the deleted diffs with this edit which also needs suppression. Shashank5988 (talk) 14:41, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

And again, how is that a copyright violation? Your Bias seems more and more clear with every posting you make. Why not let a 3rd party review instead? ContentEditman (talk) 14:43, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

ContentEditman, the content from CNN is too closely paraphrased. You need to re-write it in your own words. The other portions of this edit are okay from a copyright point of view. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 14:51, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Diannaa, are you talking about the new edited version? This one...

"In a survey of 550 experts on women's issues, India was found to be the most dangerous nation for sexual slavery, sexual violence against women, and cultural traditions that impact women." I rewrote that and added new references, not just CNN. ContentEditman (talk) 14:54, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

CNN says:

"The Thomson Reuters Foundation released its results Tuesday of a survey of 550 experts on women's issues, finding India to be the most dangerous nation for sexual violence against women, as well as human trafficking for domestic work, forced labor, forced marriage and sexual slavery, among other reasons. It was also the most dangerous country in the world for cultural traditions that impact women, the survey found, citing acid attacks, female genital mutilation,..."

Your version:

"In a survey of 550 experts on women's issues, India was found to be the most dangerous nation for sexual slavery, sexual violence against women, and cultural traditions that impact women."

Overlapping content is in bold. It's too much overlap. The material has to be re-written in your own words please. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 15:25, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

@Diannaa: How about these... A: "Over 500 experts were polled and rated India as the most dangerous country for women. This was an increase since the last polling of experts in 2011." or B: "In 2018 more than 500 experts were polled and rated India as the most dangerous country for women. India moved up from a 2011 poll that rated them as 4th most dangerous for women."

Is either of these more fitting/proper? Thanks ContentEditman (talk) 22:00, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Close, meets our copyright needs, but how about: "A 2018 poll of 500 experts found India as the most dangerous country for women. This was an increase since the last polling of experts in 2011, when India was rated fourth." — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 16:16, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Might that be too broad? There are numerous dangers to women other than sexual violence. How about "the most sexually violent country for women"? – Reidgreg (talk) 03:36, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

countries with the highest per capita rates of rape

I responded directly to Kleuske but figured I'd post here as well. The wikipedia page on gang rape had the statement: 'India has been characterized as one of the "countries with the lowest per capita rates of rape"' Meanwhile, this page had the opposite: 'India has been characterized as one of the "countries with the highest per capita rates of rape"'

This inconsistency bothered me, so I went and checked the source "Deviant Behavior", which clearly states:

"The countries with the lowest per capita rates of rape are Saudi Arabia (0.003), Azerbaijan and Yemen (0.004), Indonesia (0.006), Armenia (0.009), Georgia (0.010), Greece (0.011), Macedonia (0.013), Qatar and India (0.014)..."

furthermore, it is inconsistent with this other page: "India ranked 94th in a statistics of reported rape cases in 2010" from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#India

So, I tried to correct this page to say "lowest" to be consistent.

Instead, my changed were repeatedly reverted, and instead the other page was changed to "highest". This simply seems wrong to me. Afacool1 (talk) 07:16, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

References

See also Talk:Gang rape#India has been characterized. Johnuniq (talk) 08:04, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

there is some past discussion in the archive here, when it was initially made "lowest": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Rape_in_India/Archive_2#Problem_with_two_sources_in_the_lead, then it changed to "highest" here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rape_in_India&diff=prev&oldid=893951607, not sure why but it looks like someone's change was re-reverted Afacool1 (talk) 08:24, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

I have a problem with comparative statements based on this source. The first sentence asserts that due to differing norms on sexual conduct, it is difficult to determine prevalence. There are substantial differences, moreover, in rape laws and willingness to report the crime worldwide. If we are to base ourselves on this source, I would leave out that statement. Also, searching for prevalence per capital, yielded wildly differing rankings, which also seems to support my dislike of this particular claim. Kleuske (talk) 18:15, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

I have little knowledge in this area but would guess that the very low incidence of rape in India reported in that source is based on official figures that do not reflect actual cases. Whatever the correct way to handle this is, it is not acceptable to use that source (which says India has a very low rate of rape) to assert that India has a high rate. Johnuniq (talk) 23:46, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I misread. Sorry. Kleuske (talk) 06:28, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

Still, the point stands. Even on this TP, there is a distinct discrepancy between the claim we’re discussing here and the cite from CNN cited above. This needs to be resolved in some way. Kleuske (talk) 09:07, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 June 2019

Rate(%) Somen1975 (talk) 04:23, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ___CAPTAIN MEDUSAtalk 13:02, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

About stolen data

I surprised after 2014 the most of data missing or the information given about India are wrong why you do that Wikipedia team. Ekbal1993 (talk) 19:12, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Not sure I understand "stolen data". But, if you think some information is incorrect, you can either fix it yourself or ask for a specific change on the talk page of a protected page. In either case, please make sure that you cite any information that you add. Cites must be from reliable sources and should not violate our undue policy. --regentspark (comment) 19:58, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 June 2020

The 1st para need to be updated to 2018 numbers - Change "According to the National Crime Records Bureau (NCRB) 2013 annual report, 24,923 rape cases were reported across India in 2012.[3] Out of these, 24,470 were committed by someone known to the victim (98% of the cases)" To "According to the National Crime Records Bureau (NCRB) 2018 annual report, 33,356 rape cases were reported across India in 2018.[3] Out of these, 31,320 were committed by someone known to the victim (93.9% of the cases)"

Source: NCRB data https://ncrb.gov.in/sites/default/files/Crime%20in%20India%202018%20-%20Volume%201.pdf page 259

Update required in Rape Statistics-Conviction section Remove "The conviction rate for rapists has fallen at a steep rate over the past 40 years. " as it is unsubstantiated and is just hanging there like an opinion Remove "The conviction rate for rape cases in India was 44.3 percent in 1973, 37.7 percent in 1983, 26.9 percent in 2009, 26.6 percent in 2010, 26.4 percent in 2011,[40] 24.2% in 2012 and 27.1% in 2013." because it is duplicate to the table below which is a better depiction

Add a rows to the table 1) 32.3 2017 2) 27.2 2018 Source: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/conviction-rate-for-rape-only-27-2-even-as-country-celebrates-justice-in-nirbhaya-case/articleshow/73169787.cms

Add one line below the table to explain Conviction Rate so that readers understand it fully - "Conviction Rate = (Cases Convicted in the year) / (Cases in which Trial was completed in the year)" Source: NCRB data https://ncrb.gov.in/sites/default/files/Crime%20in%20India%202018%20-%20Volume%201.pdf page 228 Mave12 (talk) 11:09, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

 Partly done: @Mave12: I added everything except for the last part about clarifying the definition of the conviction rate, since I couldn’t find that in the source you provided. Thanks for your contributions! These were helpful suggestions, and acceptable proposals to put in an edit request. However, the request likely went unanswered for so long due to its complexity. In the future, I’d suggest splitting up complex edit requests into multiple, more manageable parts for a quicker response. — Tartan357  ^(Talk) 09:03, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Thanks much for the fantastic response. I will keep in mind about splitting a complex edit request. The conviction rate definition can be found in page 229 of the document, in heading for column 21. I hope this too gets added since it clarifies the conviction rate metric for readers. Mave12 (talk) 11:02, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Extended Confirmed Protection Edit Request for Article 'Rape in India'

The line mentioning "Marital rape is not a criminal act in India[44] though sexual intercourse with wife aged between 15 and 18 years is considered as rape." under the heading 'Estimates of unreported rapes' in the section 'Rape statistics' is fallacious.

Any form of sexual intercourse engaged in by a man with his wife under the age of 15 was already considered rape under Indian Law.
Source 1: https://indiankanoon.org/doc/195673915/
Source 2: Exception 2.—Sexual intercourse or sexual acts by a man with his own wife, the wife not being under fifteen years of age, is not rape.

The source mentioned for the incorrect sentence, '"Sex with minor wife to be considered as rape, rules Supreme Court". dna. 11 October 2017. Retrieved 9 July 2018.", mentions the Supreme Court ruling which clarified that sex with minor wife, of any age under 18, is rape. Hence, the phrase "aged between 15 and 18" is misleading as it implies that sex with minor wife under the age of 15 would not be rape, which is untrue.

I request someone to correct this as the article is under 'Extended confirmed protection' which I am not yet eligible for. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kritgpt (talk • contribs) 16:01, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Do you want to change it to "Marital rape is not a criminal act in India[44] though sexual intercourse with wife under 18 years is considered as rape"? --RegentsPark (comment) 16:07, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Notable incidents

What qualifies as a notable incident? There was one such incident in Hathras, Uttar Pradesh last year(2020 Hathras gang rape and murder) which was extraordinary because of unexplained midnight cremation of the victim by police, should it be included? —coolk (talk) 06:44, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

RFC Notable incidents

I suggest adding

• Bilkis Bano gang rape
• 1980 Chhabi Rani rape and murder.
• 2020 Hathras gang rape and murder,
• 2013 Kamduni gang rape and murder case,
• 1990 Bantala rape case,
• Phulmoni Dasi rape case,
• Vachathi case,
• Jalgaon rape case,
• Jisha murder case,
• Aruna Shanbaug case,

• 2017 Unnao rape case
• 2019 Hyderabad gang rape and murder.

Delta Meghwal, Shakti Mills, Unnao, and Ranaghat cases should be removed from the existing list if the list is seen as too long.

Knight Skywalker (talk) 11:26, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

Bad RfC. You need to make a short and neutral statement per WP:RFCBRIEF. I'm not sure that the article should contain sections for individual events at all. Alaexis_¿question? 13:38, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

This section existed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_India#Notable_incidents. I didn't create that section. The page is watched by many editors, so @Alaexis: Knight Skywalker (talk) 13:00, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

• I don't see much encyclopedic or educational value of having a long-running list of rapes in this article. Instead, I would prefer this article focus on things like incidence of rape (per state, city etc), socioeconomic status of victims and perpetrators, the degree to which culture and religion enable sexual assault (likewise cultural and religious responses against rape), life of women after rape, help available to victims, legislative responses etc. If you really want a list, you can create a list article, but note that all of these are already listed at Category:Rape in India.VR _talk 01:28, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
• I'm only the third respondent, but I note a "unanimous" three-out-of-three response against the 'Notable incidents' section itself - as well as removal of individual cases I see in other sections. The purpose of this article is not to memorialize or publicize individual cases. The purpose should be an educational overview of the broad topic. To hopefully clarify, I skimmed the article and I only spotted a single instance which should be retained: As a result of the 2012 Delhi gang rape case, the Indian government implemented a fast-track court system to rapidly prosecute rape cases. That sentence is discussing a significant development in relevant law, and it cites/links an event which is integrally necessary to understanding the nature and passage of that law. Maybe I missed another example or two where a rape case was mentioned for a specific educational purpose, but all or substantially-all other mentions of individual cases should be removed. Alsee (talk) 11:03, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Education

Our education system are the only way ,stop rape 2409:4055:2E83:BB47:0:0:B9CB:3911 (talk) 05:56, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

A note

Hi, I am User:Bookku, I work on promoting articles and drafts to fill information and knowledge gaps besides I also support women rights issues related articles from across the globe. But being student of South Asian studies South Asia tends to get some additional attention. Some users with nationalistic polarization many times fail to understand that users like me may be taking up rights / skepticism issues across (not limiting to specific identity) and such those users indulge in Whataboutism. In attempt of misplaced personal charges a user asked me in my user space why certain things are not covered in Rape in India, and other India related articles. I believe where human/ women rights issues are concerned and credible sources are available need to be duly taken note of in respective articles as per Wikipedia policies without resorting to Whataboutism. Though personal accusations (probably by a sock) are misplaced, still in good faith, I am copy pasting those ref links offered by the user. Requesting other users working on this article please take those refs into account and use them where suitable according to Wikipedia policies. Thanks and warm regards Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 08:29, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

• https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/after-attacks-women-tourists-to-india-fall-by-35-per-cent-517748
• https://www.dw.com/en/tourism-numbers-down-sharply-in-india/a-16712581
• https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/article/1673183/three-indians-arrested-over-gang-rape-and-abduction-japanese-woman
• https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-48999773
• https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/british-woman-raped-at-beach-in-goa-accused-arrested-police-3044306
• https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/rape-case-india-delhi-american-woman-danish-2016-2015-disturbing-law-nirbhaya-359928-2016-12-28
• https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15704489/inside-india-rape-crisis-manisha-valmiki/
• https://www.reuters.com/article/us-women-dangerous-poll-exclusive-idUSKBN1JM01X
• This Happened in India // Sexual Assault YouTube Sep 8, 2018

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 08:29, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Topic about a rape cases

I'm a homemaker Before two days back I have seen one incident about 5years child was raped by a school driver and principal is a woman and she supported him also and in her digital class room only and not only with her upto 25 child he has raped DAV SCHOOL name at Hyderabad and her parents were asking a justice to hang him and so many parents are striking in front of Banjara hills police station. And before few days ago 8th standard girl was raped by a 10th class and intermediate students. Another degree 2nd year student was suicide yesterday because of lecturer or someone's harassment this is the things happening in our worst society because no one will try to overcome rape attempts harassment everyone will under recommendations, higher officials, politicians these are the worst things happening in our country. 223.196.174.58 (talk) 09:54, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Can Anyone Present Here Check the Recent Rape Rates

Well I believe the Present Rape Rates in India is less than the Number Given. If any Admin would check it, I would be highly grateful DevastatorOfficial (talk) 16:32, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

The article gives a misleading perspective on the topic by not addressing high incidence of unreported rapes

By not addressing the fact that the percentage of rapes that are unreported is much higher in india than in most other countries, this article gives an unfairly rose-tinted perspective of the scale of rape in india. It's estimated that 99% of rapes in india go unreported (http://porterfolio.net/uploads/article/file/7125/gupta-2014-Reporting-and-incidence-of-violence-against-women-in-India-__1_.pdf, https://www.livemint.com/Politics/AV3sIKoEBAGZozALMX8THK/99-cases-of-sexual-assaults-go-unreported-govt-data-shows.html,). The estimates given for unreported rapes in the section on unreported rapes are unusually low--most studies indicate a rate in the 90's. The studies cited are also quite old. This higher than average incidence of unreported rape should be mentioned both in that section and in the opening paragraph.

Agreed. India is one of the least safe place for women in the world and most of the cases of rape and sexual assault go unreported. The graphs try to show it's a very safe place, but it isn't. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.69.166.66 (talk) 09:18, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 August 2023

Please add this to the lead:- The Delhi High Court has expressed worry that there is an alarming increase of false cases of rape being registered “only to arm-twist the accused and make them succumb to the demands of the complainant”. An allegation of rape leads to the arrest of the accused and he has to prove himself as being "not guilty" to avoid being sentenced to 5 years imprisonment. 2406:7400:98:AD51:7EAC:F5ED:DA5E:5831 (talk) 06:41, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

That second sentence appears to be original research and probably doesn't comply with WP:NPOV. Or is that also sourced to the High Court? Actualcpscm (talk) 12:57, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

References

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 August 2023

Please paraphrase and add this to the subsection titled, "Potential abuse concerns" under the section titled, "Disputed rape cases":- The Delhi Commission of Women (DCW) has come out with remarkably shocking statistics revealing that 53.2% of the rape cases registered with the police between April 2013 and July 2014 in Delhi were falsified. Furthermore, the report says that between April 2013 and July 2014, out of the 2,753 complaints of rape, only 1,287 cases were found to be true, and the rest of the 1,464 cases were filed on false grounds. India, after the Anti-Rape Bill passed in 2013, came up with strong punishment for rape culprits. If a person is found guilty of rape assault, they are liable to 14 years of imprisonment, in some of the cases, life imprisonment and death sentences may also be pronounced. Most of the laws are framed where men have to prove themselves innocent. 2406:7400:98:1DF:1D43:8619:B977:629C (talk) 06:28, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Kautilya3, can you do the needful?-

References

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Given citation is to a law referral service, not a reputable publisher. Xan747 ✈️ 🧑‍✈️ 23:07, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 August 2023

Please paraphrase this and add it to the lead (just after the first para) and wherever else (perhaps to the subsection titled, "Potential abuse concerns" under the section titled, "Disputed rape cases"): According to the National Crime Records Bureau, a total of 38,947 rape cases were reported in India in 2016. In 10,068 cases – about a quarter – the women claimed it was rape on false promise of marriage. In Andhra Pradesh state, 45% of all rape cases filed in the past two years fell into the false marriage category.

“When a relationship ends, women who have had consensual sex make false accusations of rape under promise of marriage out of vengefulness, to hurt the man. Or they do it to extort money out of him, promising to withdraw the charge if he gives them what they want,” says lawyer Vinay Sharma. Although this would not be considered rape in many countries, in India a man can be charged with falsely obtaining consent for sex if he promises to marry a woman and then changes his mind. 2406:7400:98:B549:18BA:BBE8:12BE:28EA (talk) 06:43, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

References

 Not done: The change you want to make is not supported by your sources. The Guardian citation clearly says, Last month, the supreme court ruled that rape cannot be invoked in cases of consensual sex after a relationship ends and the man declines to marry the woman, for whatever reason. Also, you are supposed to summarize/paraphrase the information in your sources when doing edit requests, not ask other editors to do it for you. Xan747 ✈️ 🧑‍✈️ 02:04, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 August 2023 (2)

Below the sentences requested in the above section, please add, "If rape is alleged against them, men are considered guilty until proven innocent." 2406:7400:98:B549:18BA:BBE8:12BE:28EA (talk) 06:51, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

After the above sentence, please add, "Whatever the woman says is considered to be true." as the next sentence.-2406:7400:98:B549:AEC3:3AFF:FE2C:9622 (talk) 00:13, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

References

 Partly done: Most of that verbiage has already been covered by other citations in the Potential abuse concerns section. I thought the retired judge's perspective was worthy of amplifying, so I added it to that section: Retired Supreme Court Justice B.N. Srikrishna also argued to keep the accused anonymous. Citing the low conviction rate in rape cases, he said, "There is no doubt that rape laws are being misused in the country." Xan747 ✈️ 🧑‍✈️ 02:44, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

@Xan747: can you add, "Whatever the female says is considered to be the gospel truth"?-27.7.3.11 (talk) 08:48, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 August 2023

Please add this to the lead and perhaps to the subsection titled, "Potential abuse concerns" under the section titled, "Disputed rape cases" as well, "If rape is alleged against them, men are considered guilty until proven innocent."

After the above sentence, please add, "Whatever the female says is considered to be the gospel truth"-27.7.3.11 (talk) 09:06, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

27.7.3.11 (talk) 09:06, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: This phrasing does not represent a neutral point of view, and probably doesn't being in the lead even if it did. Sources like these should be attributed to the person making the claims, and not written in a way that implies that it is undisputed fact. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 17:58, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

References