Talk:Ramsbottom

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References Needed

This article is seriously lacking in references. I have doubts about some of the information in this article that is presented as fact. If anyone could provide references to back up the following facts it would definately improve the article.

In former times the village was sometimes known locally as "Tupp's Arse" - What former times, and by who? And how do we know that?

The Black Pudding Throwing World Championship ... thought the contest stems from the War of the Roses - Where is this information from? I very much thought the contest was a modern invention by the Landlord of the Corner Pin pub in nearby Stubbins.

--Etf 09:45, 19 October 2005 (UTC) You are quite righrt about the Black Pudding championship, I was merely trying to inject some humour into the article. I will alter it slightly to reflect that. As regards the additions referring to Tupp's Arse! These were inserted by an anonymous contributor on October 13. I will revert the article to something near the original until that author provides more facts. Meanwhile, though, if you are so concerned at the lack of references in the article and obviously know some local history, why don't you alter/add to it yourself?[reply]

References seem to be all in place now apart from the one regarding the etymology of Ramsbottom. I'm pretty sure the Heritage Centre had a book that could be listed as a reference for this. Anyone still in the town who could nip down and check? Is the Heritage Centre still there? It was on Carr Street opposite the library :) -- ricmitch

Sorry, but there are a lot more references needed yet before the article is up to scratch. Richerman (talk) 17:01, 20 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

According to The Oxford English Dictionary's definition of Tup - note the single p - Tup is a Noun. chiefly British for a ram with its origins in Middle English. Arse is according to the Oxford dictionary a common British slang word for anus. Northern and Midland Dialects tended to use old Middle English words in them up until the last few generations. Tups Arse is a local nickname for Ramsbottom, Ram = tup, bottom = arse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.193.54.193 (talk) 16:38, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently Dirk Bogarde mentions Tups Arse in his autobiography - quoted in here: https://ramsbottomheritage.org.uk/mags/44.pdf Browolf (talk) 19:42, 20 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Good Samaritan Pub

Not sure why people keep adding to the bottom of the article with information about this pub and it's recent drinkable offerings, people if you want to help improve the article you need to make sure your text is relevant and that it fits in with the rest of the text. --ericthefish 21:22, 3 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Name Meaning from Dictionary of Place-Names,Adrian Roome, Bloomsbury 1988 ISBN 0 7475 0170 and summarised a little:-

"name probably means rams valley from Old English ramm(ram) and botm(valley). However some toponymists interpret it as wild-garlic-valley with the first element representing the Old English hramsa. A record from 1324 giving it as Ramesbothum is inconclusive." .. 82.38.97.206 16:14, 22 March 2006 (UTC)mikeL[reply]

.

Holcombe/Harcles Hill

This has bugged me for years. Reference an OS map and you'll see that the tower sits on Harcles Hill. Holcombe Hill forms part of the moorlands behind Harcles. However, the hill is visible from the valley with Holcombe Brook and the village on its side. So it's known locally as Holcombe Hill ie the Hill near Holcombe. It's a minor point but checkable. Derbydave 12:10, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

According to Ordnance Survey the mound of hill on which Peel monument is situated is nameless it is just south of Harcles Hill however it is still on Holcombe Moor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mark Thompson02 (talk • contribs) 14:48, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Religion

The Religion section is just a list of local churches. Surely it ought to be removed? ---- Eric 20:55, 5 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Traditions

Is it really appropriate to include a section on a local pub crawl, the Rammy mile? ---- Eric 20:58, 5 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Peel Tower

We need a piccie of the Peel Tower. Have a look at this gallery and let me know which you would like. -- RHaworth 15:29, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This, because it doesn't have people in it and isn't overexposed. -- Boothman _/tɔːk/ 17:50, 18 July 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Actually we already had Image:Greenmount,peeltower,snow.jpg, Image:Greenmount,peeltower,rain.jpg and Image:Peel Tower HarryP.jpg but we can still have Peel Tower 272.jpg. Whaddya mean overexposed? I think they are all correctly exposed and the one I've uploaded is, if anything, the overexposed one. -- RHaworth 19:46, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Whitelow Cairn

"...Bronze Age burial sites around Ramsbottom, the most notable of which is Whitelow Cairn...thought to date back to at least the mid-2nd century BC". In Great Britain this ended around 700BC (cf the article's own link to Bronze Age). Was this then an iron age site, or was it dated earlier than the mid-2nd century BC? 83.138.172.72 (talk) 13:03, 26 January 2008 (UTC)Bernard[reply]

Good point. As the statement is unreferenced it's hard to tell, but as the Bronze Age reference looks more consistent with a quick Google search, I've deleted the suggested age. Hopefully someone will be able to come up with a proper reference. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 16:07, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Done, the source I found didn't have a date but it did place it in the Bronze Age. Nev1 (talk) 17:17, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

General article tweaks

I've had a look over this article, and noticed a few factual and stylistic errors and have basically reworked the lead paragraph and changed some of the sources. The following is a break down of my actions. Do bare with me though, because this might be quite in-depth:

Ramsbottom split between two boroughs

This is in response to a claim in the former lead paragraph here. I haven't the time to ascertain who made the claim after reading from this source, but the Ramsbottom that is spoken of in there refers to the former Urban District, which expanded into the present day ward of Eden of Rossendale borough. In 1974, Stubbins town northwards became Rossendale borough. In the light of this, I have removed the source and thus the assertion, because it fails to distinguish between the Ramsbottom settlement and the urban district which bore the same name. In addition to this, I also removed the "historically wholly within Lancashire" statement, since this statement applied to the concept that there are still bits of Ramsbottom in Rossendale and that they have since been partitioned. As you can see from the following map, Eden ward does not contain Ramsbottom. Stubbins and Edenfield towns are not part of Ramsbottom. It is not statutory possible in England for a single settlement to be in two local government districts. I think this point has been sufficiently made, so moving on...

Ramsbottom in Rossendale Valley

I cannot find anything to substantiate the claim that Ramsbottom forms part of the Rossendale valley. It is neither mentioned on the official Rossendale tourism website, nor on Bury MBC's visitor guide site here. If you have a reliable source to prove the claim, then please go ahead and add it.

Well, Joe Strummer of Haslingden (whoever he may be) says "Ramsbottom however is situated firmly in the Rossendale Valley yet administered by Bury Council this dual existence seems to have served the town well." and this guy says "So whilst Ramsbottom is geographically within the Rossendale Valley it as never been part of it for Local Government purposes". Neither are exactly reliable sources but they do explain the confusion :) Richerman (talk) 00:25, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ramsbottom is in the Irwell Valley.--J3Mrs (talk) 19:38, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

OK, well if you have a source to back it up then by all means please put it back in, if you think it might add to the article. Tong22 (talk) 20:39, 20 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just look at a map, it's on the banks of the River Irwell!--J3Mrs (talk) 21:10, 20 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The entire Rossendale Valley has the River Irwell as its base therefore logically you have no argument to develop here J3Mrs.Is that not true? (94.192.187.54 (talk) 16:46, 2 October 2010 (UTC))[reply]

True the Irwell has its origins in Rossendale, but on the maps I have looked at, including [1], only the small part of the valley between Bacup and Rawtenstall is referred to as the Rossendale Valley. Following your argument to its logical conclusion Bury and Manchester would be in Rossendale to. You have yet to provide proof.--J3Mrs (talk) 18:22, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Shire county (Lancashire)

Could whoever who was responsible for listing Ramsbottom as being in the Rossendale district, Lancashire shire county, not do this again, as this is grossly inaccurate. I'm not interested in local sentiment, the settlement is statutorily in Greater Manchester metropolitan county and thus cannot form part of another NUTS 2 area as demonstrated here. I don't think I need to mention the Local Government Act 1972 or the Lieutenancies Act 1997, of which I'm sure you are very aware. And based upon the flame wars that have raged on Talk pages over this very issue, I remind you to adhere to the WP:NPOV protocol.

And Finally

Last but not least, I have added a small transport section, so feel free to elaborate upon it. Also, please substantiate claims about Ramsbottom -such as it being a "regional centre for cultural tourism" or that it is "characterised by it's position in the West Pennine Moors"- with reliable sources. So in the light of this, I've added a clean-up request at the top of the talk page since I feel the article only needs a minor sprucing up.

That's essentially it. With a few more sources and fully completed sections, this will be a fine article. Tong22 (talk) 14:00, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Wikapadia Ramsbottom Population INACCURATE.

When the Metropolitan Borough of Bury was created in 1974.The majority of the town of Ramsbottom was incorporated into this NEW borough.It was one of six towns - the others being Tottington,Whitefield,Radcliffe ,Prestwich and Bury itself as the biggest and the lead town.It was said at the time Six Towns/One Borough.Indeed the Housing company controlled by Bury Metropolitan Borough Council today is still called "Six Town Housing" to signify this.

I am writing this section because of the - impertinent and disrespectful,indeed immature attitude of a wikipedia contributor called -"J3Mrs". Wikipedia is above all else supposed to be accurate - ARE YOU LISTENING J3Mrs???? - that is why i inserted more Ramsbottom information to make Wikipedia's efforts more up to date. J3Mrs LISTEN!!!! In 2004 the Ward and Town of Ramsbottom ceased to be the same thing in Bury Metropolitan Borough.As a consequence the populations of these two entities changed.You have got the population of Ramsbottom listed as 14635.Wrong Wikipedia.That is the population of the new ward that just happened to be called Ramsbottom as it is based on the town mostly.

The new Ramsbottom Ward is one of 17 wards.The Ramsbottom Town boundary is only one of 6 - staggeringly differant.I explained to readers that Ramsbottoms true,not Ward population,was 17318. If you had requested DEBATE before you deleted my contribution I MAY NOT HAVE BEEN AS ANNOYED. Your behaviour - J3Mrs - reminds me of the novel 1984 and the way totalitarian regimes operate.I was out to give readers new information - so they could reach an informed point of view.YOU HOWEVER WERE DETERMINED TO ENFORCE YOUR POINT OF VIEW ON EVERYBODY.

This is why Wikapedia is becoming increasing seen as irrelevant as local blogs in areas concerned are more accurate. I wait for your response.You will certainly get an accurate robust and honest reply.

Wikapadia Ramsbottom Population INACCURATE.

When the Metropolitan Borough of Bury was created in 1974.The majority of the town of Ramsbottom was incorporated into this NEW borough.It was one of six towns - the others being Tottington,Whitefield,Radcliffe ,Prestwich and Bury itself as the biggest and the lead town.It was said at the time Six Towns/One Borough.Indeed the Housing company controlled by Bury Metropolitan Borough Council today is still called "Six Town Housing" to signify this.

I am writing this section because of the - impertinent and disrespectful,indeed immature attitude of a wikipedia contributor called -"J3Mrs". Wikipedia is above all else supposed to be accurate - ARE YOU LISTENING J3Mrs???? - that is why i inserted more Ramsbottom information to make Wikipedia's efforts more up to date. J3Mrs LISTEN!!!! In 2004 the Ward and Town of Ramsbottom ceased to be the same thing in Bury Metropolitan Borough.As a consequence the populations of these two entities changed.You have got the population of Ramsbottom listed as 14635.Wrong Wikipedia.That is the population of the new ward that just happened to be called Ramsbottom as it is based on the town mostly.

The new Ramsbottom Ward is one of 17 wards.The Ramsbottom Town boundary is only one of 6 - staggeringly differant.I explained to readers that Ramsbottoms true,not Ward population,was 17318. If you had requested DEBATE before you deleted my contribution I MAY NOT HAVE BEEN AS ANNOYED. Your behaviour - J3Mrs - reminds me of the novel 1984 and the way totalitarian regimes operate.I was out to give readers new information - so they could reach an informed point of view.YOU HOWEVER WERE DETERMINED TO ENFORCE YOUR POINT OF VIEW ON EVERYBODY.

This is why Wikapedia is becoming increasing seen as irrelevant as local blogs in areas concerned are more accurate. I wait for your response.You will certainly get an accurate robust and honest reply. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RammyMan (talk • contribs) 17:18, 28 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]