Talk:Ramadan riots

This article is notable, should not be deleted

I don't think it should be deleted. A search on Google for "ramadan riots" leads to 28,800 pages. That being said, this subject is notable enough. Also, I never wrote that it was an actual tradition, and don't see why it should be deleted for such a reason. Yes, it is a news story. And so are the Muhammad cartoons. EliasAlucard|Talk 08:26, 27 Oct, 2006 (UTC)

Terrible propoganda article

This whole article needs to be re-written, it is totally biased, and loaded againts Muslims. The riots had very little to do with Islam, although there were many, possibly a majority, of Muslims involved, but they also had many many non-Mulsim blacks, arabs, and other ethnic minorities. see this from the BBC: "the area which is home to large African and Arab communities." [1] Aaliyah Stevens 21:58, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

It is true that the article might have some issues with neutrality and original research, but for the most part the information in it seems to be facts supported by reliable sources. I don't seen any major issues that should make a {{POV}} tag needed. As for "Arab and African communities", that doesn't mean "non-Muslim". -- Karl Meier 23:05, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, Aaliyah Stevens is welcome to point out any facts that are incorrect. The facts in this article are sourced from mainstream sources, news reports and public research. TimothyHavelock 05:36, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Are you seriously trying to argue that non-Muslim ethnic minorities in the same neighbourhoods, didn't participate? Please answer the question, because if you believe that, then I will produce plenty of evidence to say that it was an ethnic minority thing, not primarily a Muslim thing. Aaliyah Stevens 12:06, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

If I believe that non-Muslims didn't participate in Ramadan events that included yelling chants such as "Allahu Akbar", "Jihad"? Well, perhaps I do believe just that, but that is not of much importance here. What I believe, think and have as a personal opinion, is not what this article is about. However, if it is actually true that the non-Muslims actually did participate in the Islamic Ramadan celebrations, then I agree it would of course be interesting. Please do present the evidence that is available to you. -- Karl Meier 19:53, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Exactly. As long as Aaliyah Stevens doesn't offer anything sibstantive to disprove the well-established facts that these suburbs are being shaped and framed by islamic tendencies and cultural attributes, I think I'll take the word of established and respected scholars, sociologists, historians, newsreports and statistics over the word of one single Wikipedian. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TimothyHavelock (talk • contribs) 05:40, 5 March 2007 (UTC).

Merge with French riots

This whole topic is better served by the French riots article. MERGE!!Aaliyah Stevens 22:04, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

No it isn't, because the article discuss a separate issue, which is the Islamic Ramadan riots. Another thing is that the article that discuss the violent attacks that happened in France, is already quite large. It surely doesn't need more material. -- Karl Meier 22:50, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

This article is about the same riots that swept through europe, specifically france, it is the same thing, but you have labelled it with a POV title, and given the riots a different name. Regardless of if you agree with me or not, the point is that it is disputed! You can't deny that, and I will provide evidence that the riots were not only Muslim origin youth. And for your information, Allah is simply the word for God, and the 15% of all arabs who are Christian also shout Allahu Akbar, and use the arabic calendar, because the months existed before Islam, so just because some youths shout Allah, does not mean they are Muslims Aaliyah Stevens 22:45, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

This article is at best original research with a POV. The sources you provide in this article are either not credible and reliable enough to qualify as sources, e.g. debka, or they are reliable national newspapers, but do not hold the same conclusions as you have on this whole topic, they refer to the riots as "the french riots", nothing to do with any theological motivation, or hatred of jews, non-muslims etc. The telegraph article states that it is mainly Arab AND sub-saharab africans, who are majority Christians, except in some west african countries.Aaliyah Stevens 23:53, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Not credible sources? You must be joking. Are mainstream British, French, German, Dutch, Swedish and US newspaper reports not credible? Is AP and Reuters not credible? Are established historians and world renowned middle east experts such as Bernard Lewis and Martin Gilbert not credible? Are European research institutes like the Dutch Institute of Migration and Ethnic Studies, swedish forum för levande historia, or France's top national education official Jean-Pierre Obin not credible? Are the 14+ sources for muslim opinion polls that clearly indicate shifting religious sympathies not credible? Get real. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TimothyHavelock (talk • contribs) 07:23, 5 March 2007 (UTC).

If you read carefully what I said, I agreed there are credible sources but that they don't give the same slant and conclusions as this POV article. Aaliyah Stevens 17:09, 5 March 2007 (UTC)