Talk:Ragdoll/Archive 1

Is this a weapon or a cat? Bensaccount 04:22, 15 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the sentence

The Ragdoll is the largest fully domestic breed of cat.

because it does not appear to be true, unless 'fully domestic' means something of which I'm unaware (if so, it needs to be defined). Male Maine Coons, for instance, regularly top 25 pounds and have much greater dimensions. I have seen numerous (and not overweight) British Shorthairs that reach 20 pounds also. If 'fully domestic' is being used to exclude these breeds, then it's a very misleading definition. —Morven 17:54, 18 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

H-m-m. Interesting -- and a great photo. Didn't know about this breed. Tell me. This phenomenon of them going limp when picked up -- is that being truly relaxed or an instinctual defensive response left over, perhaps, from its wild progenitors, similar to the way opposums play "possum" in the hope that a potential preditor will lose interest and leave them be? Or, is some weird form of (reverse) myotonia, such as can be found in fainting goats -- the result of a recessive genetic trait made, perhaps, more dominant in ragdolls by inbreeding?deeceevoice 15:09, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I've got a Ragdoll, and in his case at least it's a state of being truly relaxed. It might be that they simply don't "tense" as other animals normally do when being handled, because they don't have a very good sense of danger in general. They do not play "opossum" or "faint". If I had to comment on the genetic reasons behind this, I would guess they possess a mutation that negatively impacts their intelligence, perhaps quite similar to Down's Syndrome. I've never met a Ragdoll who would be capable of surviving in the wild; they place their full trust in everything and everyone and simply will not recognize danger. Cats are solitary hunters in the wild and thus will not respond to training as dogs do; the corollary would be that it'd be much harder for a human to distinguish the difference between a smart cat and a not-so-smart cat.

Then again, my ragdoll is the opposite. He seems quite distressed whenever he's picked up (by anyone but his favorite person anyway) and doesn't relax or purr.. but has a scared look on his face. Nonetheless, he goes completely limp and doesn't resist even the most outright abuse on his feline person.

I, too, have a Ragdoll which I took in as a stray in '98 [albeit pregnant, unbeknownst to me at the time] and find her to be fully as described in the article. She's non-confrontational [more on that in a moment], and loves for you to pick her up and flop her on her back, cradled in your left arm. I previously hadn't heard of the breed prior to her coming into my life and simply assumed she was a Persian for about 3 years. Mine is the most unusual in typical cat behavior that I've seen; whereas most cats are stand-offish and prefer to sit in your lap instead of being held, she never sits in my lap but I could hold her for most of the day I believe. Purring is mostly silent but can be felt when holding her. Meows are rare unless she is craving some blades of grass from outside. She doesn't associate with my other cats but is highly possessive of my bed, where she sleeps with me, as she quickly dispatches anyone that tries to encroach on her turf which is anywhere on top of the covers. Otherwise she's non-confrontational with the others. In her fearlessness [blissful ignorance?] she has escaped outside from time to time, trotting between three dogs [the neighbor's enormous Boxer Bulldog and another similarly-sized dog of theirs, along with my outdoor Border Collie] as if they're not even there, on her way to quickly eat some grass. Were these animals not tame, she would have been consumed immediately and on many occasions as her self-awareness seems to be switched off at most times. Additionally, nobody that enters the house is a stranger and most guests are expected, by her, to commence petting her upon their arrival as she runs to greet them. I rarely comb her unless it's one of the two times a year she's shedding [it's otherwise not necessary], and this is about the only time she becomes aggressive towards me. She tolerates it for about 5 strokes and then lets me have it, with a scream and a usually harmless smack on my hand, followed by a severe pummelling to the unfortunate cat that happens to be closest to her at that time. Eccentric, but loveable. I think the "pain tolerance" issue can be put to rest. Never having owned a pure breed cat before, instead giving a home to the unfortunate tabby kitten or two, I will seek out this breed in the future. I do not recommend this breed for anything except indoor life; their insatiable curiousity and fearlessness will quickly be their demise outdoors. Click my username to see a pic of her. ~ Gtimandan 05:37, 17 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

"Kitty Puss" is beautiful. But I have a concern that you don't brush her more often. As she ages, she very well could develop hairballs. Have you tried using the "brush mits" -- gloves that help remove excess hair? Also, if you're not currently using a hairball remedy/preventative, I'd strongly recommend it. If you come across any info about their habit of going limp, please let me know. Curious -- isn't it? deeceevoice 20:58, 29 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Computer stuff

I have twice removed language at the end that refers to computer model language. Here's my take on it. It's another meaningof ragdoll, but needs it's own article. It shouldn't be just placed at the end of a totally (apart of ther name) enrelated article. Any thoughts? Should it be removed to be put somewhere else or am I off my rocker? I'll leave it alone if someone puts it back, but will act if there's a clear consensus here. Thanks!Gator1 18:58, August 31, 2005 (UTC)

Since there's currently no article for the computer-related meaning, we can have a (short) paragraph at the end of this article seperated from the main article with a line. If anyone ever writes an article on the other usage, we can put a disambig. link at the top. I'll go ahead and put the info back in. Lachatdelarue (talk) 20:40, 1 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Why don't we just put put a disambig now and write the new article now with the paragraph that you're putting back in? It will just bea stub but that's OK right? I have bigger fish to fry, but that is how it's done right? Oh and thanks for putting the info back in, I appreciate it.Gator1 20:50, September 1, 2005 (UTC)

I have contacted an administrator about this. Maybe he/she can give us some advice on how to properly seperate these two pages. We'll see if he/she can help.Gator1 21:03, September 1, 2005 (UTC)

Alright Shane contacted me and told me how to do it and I did it! Check it out out ragdoll (computer modell). I think this takes care of it.Gator1 21:35, September 1, 2005 (UTC)

Oops he spelled it wrong, but he'll take care of it for us. Cool guy.Gator1 21:38, September 1, 2005 (UTC)

Heh, yeah. And what's more, I found there was already an article on the computer term called Ragdoll physics. So I changed the disambig note to point to that one instead. Now, I hope everything is in order and this article can be all about the cat ;-). Shanes 22:11, 1 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the lines:

"The breed has some unusual features. When picked up, it goes entirily limp (hence the name). It has an extremely high tolarance for pain (it has been known to ignore serious injuries)."

The article already mentions the origin of the name "Ragdoll", so it did not need to be stated again.

As for the pain tolerance statement, this is a misconception about ragdolls (thought to be started by the original Breeder, who also said they came from aliens!). This misconception around pain tolerence is often enforced by the fact that cats, as a species, are very good at hiding pain, injuries, medical problems, etc. Ragdolls have the same pain threshold as any other cat breed (trust me, I've stepped on my purebred ragdoll's tail a few times!).

Defkkon 00:28, 9 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Many of the original ragdoll characteristics are perhaps being lost by breeding. My ragdoll (blue tabby point male aged 2 years) is a normal cat in a fancy coat. He does not go limp when held, in fact he scremas and struggles if held for more than a few seconds, and his coat matts shockingly if not combed every couple of days, and he fights with one of my other cats. His purr is silent but can be felt if you stroke his neck. He avoids strangers who visit the house. He can certainly feel pain. He is affectionate in his own way, and very beautiful. As to the largest breed. I also have a Maine Coon, who is considerably larger, and I was told by my vet that the ragdoll would be smaller by about 10%, which has turned out right, the ragdoll is 18lbs and the Maine Coon 20lbs. The Maine Coon often meets the classic description of the ragdoll rather better than the ragdoll does, being soft and limp when picked up, non-matting, very affectionate and placid!

I suspect that it may just be your cat. I have a breeder right down the street for me and I've visited her on a few occasiosn (and am thinking of buying a ragdoll soon), all of her ragdolls exemplify the classic characteristis: going limp, very docile and not confrontational (to a fault). That happens. See the Jersey Wooly page. I have one and it is NOTHING like the page says! LOLGator1 21:39, 17 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I'm thinking it may just be the unique characteristics of your cat as well. I have a few friends who all got Ragdolls from the same breeder (about 7 different cats, actually). Out of them all, only one acts similar to your cat (doesn't go limp, isn't overly affectionate, etc). As for the rest, they all display the typical behaviours listed in the article. My Ragdoll, for instance, displays all traits that are considered typical. He's like jell-o in your arms, he's affectionate to everyone he meets, purrs like a freight-train, and has a long coat that doesn't even come close to matting. There's always exceptions to the rule. :) Defkkon 22:15, 17 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

picture

Is the picture working for anyone else. I can't see it anymore. Is that just me?Gator1 19:31, 21 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, can't see it either! Although now that someone has brought it up, I would like to discuss changing the photo for this article. The picture is gorgeous - very high quality, and a beautiful cat. However, the cat doesn't have what is considered a "standard" pattern. I would love to see an image of a colour-point, bi-colour, or mitted that has the proper markings. Again, the original photo is gorgeous, I'd just like to see a cat that conforms more closely to the breed patterns. Anyone else have an opinion? Defkkon 20:24, 21 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Well I coldn't see the old or new picture so I cna't offer an opinion...was the old picture deleted? Can someone with more tech sense than I figure this out? Unitl we can see some pics, this entire dicussion is going to have to be stayed as temporarily moot lol. Love to see the proposed pic. Try to add it to the talk page and see what happens.Gator1 20:37, 21 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The "history" of the articles may have the URL to the old pictures in the old edits. The CFA champion Ragdolls are nice... jynx 12:17, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, it looks like someone deleted the original. I can revert to a previous version, but the original image is missing. Does anyone know where the original picture came from? Defkkon 20:32, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I have no clue, does anyone know how to figure out who deleted that picture and why? This seems highly unusual. Gator1 21:06, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, I got some help on this. User JesseW deleted it because there was no source information and they didn't want to get sued. Let's see that picture of yours Jynx, so we can decide.Gator1 21:13, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Awesome, good job Gator1. I also have a couple potential images. I have a few friends who are all Ragdoll owners, along with myself. One of them has gorgeous seal bi-colours who have almost perfect markings. I'll ask her if she minds us using the image. I'll post a sample, and let everyone decide. Defkkon 22:07, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Ok everyone, here is the image that I'm proposing to be used. Its a seal colourpoint ragdoll, and its markings are excellent. I have permission of the owner, and she's pretty excited that it may be on here. :) The link to the image is : (removed link, picture is part of page) Let me know what you think! Defkkon 17:21, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Fine by me, I say go for it.Gator1 17:25, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It has been done! Defkkon 18:05, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

A complaint

Hi. An unregistered user (uhhmm, could it be User:NeverLogic?) switched the picture. The article now has a "Zoe" pic. Can the older version be retrieved? Whatever happened to the older image of a real ragdoll?,,,,Ariele 06:12, 18 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, Zoe pic looks like a ragdoll mix.

A ragdoll looks like this one [1] and that of the previous photo which the anonymous user erased.,,,,Ariele 06:24, 18 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Never mind, ...image retrieved.,,,Ariele 06:31, 18 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Ariele! Defkkon 03:28, 19 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

WHy isnt zoe a real ragdoll, and sorry i did not

mean to erase it??  --NeverLogic 00:17, 21 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

-could it be because shes still a kitten? --NeverLogic 00:34, 21 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Zoe is a nice looking cat, but shouldn't be used as the article image. Ragdolls don't have their proper markings and colouration until approximately 2-3 years of age. A more mature cat (such as the one in the current image) conveys the traits of the breed more effectively. You also shouldn't change an article image unless you have a good reason (copyright violation, inappropriate, etc) or if you allow people to vote on it first (or at least allow objections). Defkkon 01:22, 21 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Picture of a Mix Ragdoll Stretching Out on the Sofa or Bed

Any ideas there?,,,,,Ariele 00:20, 13 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Just like I said in a previous discussion, we should try and stick with Ragdolls that show typical and breed-specific markings. The picture you're referring to may have a lynx pattern, but may be too young to look like a Ragdoll yet. I vote to remove it as long as others are on board. Defkkon 18:05, 13 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I totally agree. It is a cute cat. Then again, aren't all cats cute?. Maybe the creator of the photo may want to consider posting to her/his user page just as I have with mine.,,,,,Ariele 02:10, 16 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No one seems to have an argument with removing the image (except probably the owner?). I'm going to remove the wiki code for the image. If the owner wishes to use the picture in their user page, as Ariele mentioned, perhaps that would be a better idea. Beautiful cat, but perhaps not appropriate for a breed page. Defkkon 13:35, 16 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ragdoll

You can leave your picture up, but Zoe is a real purebread ragdoll. I have the papers and whatnot. I also have a bluepoint cat. Zoe is a kitten though, not even a year old. --NeverLogic 22:53, 1 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with User:Defkkon w.r.t mature Ragdoll pic. And I'm not the creator of the photo. My current project is verifying content of articles submitted for verification in Wiki's backlog. There's quite a bit of work to do there. ,,,,,Ariele 02:30, 2 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Image ad/link

Removed image ad/link. Cute but not encyclopedic. --FloNight ^talk 00:48, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Special Request Image

What do you all think of the image on my page to display the cat for its full body with tail? The only thing is, at the time this image was taken, the cat was a little less than a year old, so it wasn't fully matured.

--Mills entari 03:24, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Text error

The Algonquin Hotel in New York City keeps a ragdoll in its lobby. The tradition dates to the 1930s

Clearly this can't be right, as the Ragdoll first appeared in the 60'. It probably means the hotel has had a cat in the lobby since the 1930s ? --Linuxman 20:25, 9 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Life expectancy

Anyone who could fill in how long Ragdolls usually live ? --Linuxman 20:29, 9 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Photos Galore

Do we really need five photos with this article? I don't think this is a place for people to post photos of their pets. I can see 1-2 to illustrate the article, but more than that... what do you think? and per WIki, these do not qualify: Preferred photos show the complete animal, head to tail. --K72ndst 19:08, 29 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Article Tone/Bias

While I don't see any need for negative content in the article, the tone of the article suggests an inherant bias, and reads more like an advertisement than an encyclopedia article. I suggest the article be rewritten, with the same information, but with a less "buy this product" tone. Discuss. Jo7hs2 (talk) 17:25, 29 February 2008 (UTC) Note: I seperated these two comment sections for clarity. Jo7hs2 (talk) 15:03, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ragdolls go limp

I dont know what all changes were made, but I think its ridiculous that the article now states that it is a misconception that Ragdolls are named so because they go limp more often than other cats. As a Ragdoll owner and having grown up in a house full of them, I know from personal experience that this "anecdotal" evidence is simply true. Anyone who has ever picked up a Ragdoll knows this to be true. Period. Thesetrixaintforkids (talk) 02:50, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm getting sick and tired of seeing this article changed back! The FACT that Ragdolls go limp when you pick them up is OBVIOUS to ANYONE who's ever even HELD one much less LIVED WITH A HOUSEHOLD FULL OF THEM LIKE I HAVE FOR YEARS. STOP changing it to say "MYTH" when it is in fact, FACT. Some stupid overinflated self important "article" from some random cat breeder online that contradicts EVERY OTHER cat breeder and Ragdoll information page online, is NOT a reputable source! Thesetrixaintforkids (talk) 16:23, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I removed that statement; the source was indeed not reliable. We need to find more reliable sources for the other statements using the same source; I left them, though, since they don't seem as egregiously wrong as saying their floppiness is just a myth. SheepNotGoats (Talk) 13:38, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

generally a helpful article

I just was given with a Ragdoll cat and find this article helpful and informative. It's tone is more like enthusiasm than marketing, so it may not need any major changes.

Avirr (talk) 04:12, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

New infobox image

I replaced the old image with one showing the full cat. Hope there is no objections. The old image is now in the gallery section.--220.255.x.x (talk) 10:04, 23 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Temperament

I own two CFA registered Ragdoll cats. Got them from a breeder who has bred 26+ grand champions. I've attended many CFA cat shows as well and did research on the breed before adopting the two. Breeders do look for desirable traits in their cats in their breeding program, which is more complex and sophisticated than one might think. Go check it out for yourself. Attend one of your local CFA shows and talk to some of the breeders or show judges there. Ronewirl (talk) 16:49, 27 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

To avoid another edit war with another Wikipedian who tend to disagree with my contributions because the information is unpublished or unsourced. The dispute is over the following:

"Breeders look for desirable traits in a Ragdoll cat. These traits are then repeated in the breeding program generation after generation. The Ragdoll cat is famously known for its unconditional loyalty for its human...."

"Many have since birth, never been taught to defend itself from the hazards of outdoor living and therefore, this particular breed of cat depends solely on human intervention."

Ronewirl (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:57, 27 February 2009 (UTC).[reply]

(ec) Of your two additions, one of them is rather obviously true (the first sentence), but it generically applies to all cat breeding programs (actually, most probably to all artificial breeding programs), thus is not specifically relevant to the article on Ragdolls. The second sentence is a little more dubious: for the first part this also applies to all indoor-only cats (most purebred cats are kept strictly indoors), and the second part of the sentence doesn't necessarily flow from the first (a cat that has never been outdoors may indeed learn to fend for itself -- although the chances aren't in its favor). You may wisht to review WP:RS to understand fully why I removed your edits again.--Ramdrake (talk) 16:59, 27 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I understand your where you're coming from ... nix on the original research stuff and all. My intention was to point out the fact that their sweet gentle nature (e.g. flopping on the floor or tabletop and their velcro-style attachment to the human) is more pronounced with Ragdolls because of their personality trait. This trait is bred into their pedigree from several generations of breeding. I don't like to use my personal example, but here it is: After adopting my first CFA ragdoll, I sumitted my registration paper to CFA and ordered his family tree going back as far as six generations. His family tree just goes on and on and on from several different catteries located all over the country. He isn't my first house cat. After three years of observation, I do believe his personality is an exact replica of his mom and dad. His willingness to please - from his mom. His playfullness - from his dad. And so on...His siblings are that way too. Yeah, I know. Original research doesn't count.

Ronewirl (talk) 18:07, 27 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Unfriendly Ragdoll, Really?

Ok. Ragdolls do shed. But I think we as humans should give the breed the benefit of the doubt when it comes to our perception of the breed's behavior. Any cat who has spent a great deal of time around humans (or should I say, any human who has spent a great deal of time around a cat), will tend to assess the situation and decide on his/her own accord, how to react to a situation. This doesn't necessarily mean he/she is being unfriendly or being too vocal. As a cat lover, I prefer my cats to be very vocal. After a while, I learn how my cat communicates because of his/her repetitiveness. A vocal cat is repetitive but the sounds are not the same. For example, a cat teaches me a language only I and my cat would understand. I would find it more difficult to care for my cat if he/she were the silent type. Ragdolls vocalize because he/she is trying to tell you something. And as for unfriendliness, it could be a medical condition or a terrible misunderstanding. I suppose some humans are like that too. If cats are not for you, get a dog, rabbit, hamster or fish. <-->Ronewirl (talk) 03:11, 6 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]