Talk:RCAF Overseas Headquarters

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Military history: Aviation / Canadian / North America

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An article re: the RCAF Overseas or just the headquarters?

I think the main "thrust" of this article needs to be clarified. If we're talking about the "RCAF Overseas" the article will be broad and include content related to all RCAF operations outside of Canada, including headquarters. The article as it stands now, only refers to the headquarters, in which case the title should be moved to "RCAF Overseas Headquarters". I think the broader approach (not just about the HQ) is the way to go; an article such as this would be very valuable. Thoughts on this? BC _{talk to me} 06:11, 1 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The article is intended to be just about the headquarters. I would not oppose a page move to RCAF Overseas Headquarters although the headquarters was often referred to as simply RCAF Overseas (note capital "O"). I have no doubt that a general history of RCAF actions outwith Canada during WW2 would be a most valuable article. It was also be a big undertaking to write that article. There is of course nothing to stop both articles being created although I don't think I have a lot of time to work on the more general history, although I might be able to do a bit. I suggest the best approach would be to start with the History of the Royal Canadian Air Force article and when the WW2 section is sufficently large, break it out to another article. Greenshed (talk) 00:35, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I read over the reference article (RCAF Overseas), and found no reference to the headquarters (RCAF Overseas Headquarters) also being called "RCAF Overseas". I did notice reference to "Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief, RCAF Overseas" (capitalized "O" because it's a title) on page 58, but from my interpretation, this doesn't refer to the headquarters; it refers to his responsibilities in commanding overseas ops. The document isn't terribly clear. I also found no mention of it in the other reference, "Crucible of War". I could very well be wrong here, however. I agree that a general history of overseas operations would be onerous, but probably could be done.-- BC _{talk to me} 01:30, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've moved the article. Greenshed (talk) 02:34, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

After further research, I think I am able to clarify “RCAF Overseas”. According to this summary of how the RCAF contributed overseas: http://www.canmilair.com/rcafhistory.htm, “RCAF Overseas” referred to the command responsible for contributing Canadian units and personnel to the war effort in Europe.”RCAF Overseas Headquarters” was the controlling part of the command. This is just my interpretation. I think I have a source that can clarify this. Online information seems to be scarce and confusing.-- BC _{talk to me} 00:23, 5 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It would be great if you could add this to the article with a reference. Greenshed (talk) 06:07, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

HQ Functions

In addition to providing "liaison with the British Air Ministry", providing a "central location for personnel records" and providing "general administration" didn't the HQ also have some form of authority over Canadian units and formations serving with the RAF (e.g. No. 6 Group RCAF)? Any ideas how this worked? Greenshed (talk) 01:01, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

From "Sixty Years-The RCAF and CF Air Command 1924-1984", pg 130, it mentions that "RCAF Headquarters in London exercised increasing authority over administrative matters, but virtually none in operational ones. Canadian officers held responsible tactical commands, but even the Air Officer Commanding, No. 6 Group -- the largest RCAF formation overseas-- had little discretion in affairs beyond the organization and tactics of his force; Bomber Command was highly centralized with the British officers advising Sir Arthur Harris, who in turn advised the Air Ministry and British Cabinet. In theory Canadian authorities had to give consent before any RCAF squadron was transferred to another theatre of war...In practice, British requests were perfunctory and Canadian agreement was automatic." As far as control over RCAF personnel in RAF units, I believe this was rather complex and was covered by the BCATP agreement. Page 98 of the same reference above mentions that "operational control of RCAF personnel and units overseas was vested in RAF authorities, and strategic considerations took precedence over the political views of Dominion organizations." It goes on to say that "RCAF personnel were paid by the RAF at RAF rates; the difference between RCAF and RAF pay scales was supplied by Canada."-- BC _{talk to me} 01:44, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Badge

A picture of the badge is at http://jfchalifoux.com/rcaf_overseas.jpg A suitably licensed version would be appreciated if anyone has the time. Greenshed (talk) 04:55, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]