Talk:Qurabiya/Archive 1

Archive 1

Kurabiye - Polvorón

This article seems to be under a Polvorón occupation. Considering that the polvorones originated from "kurabiye", this is a peculiar situation. I tried to clean up the article a little bit but more text on polvorón should be removed and instead more should be added on "kurabiye". Please see also the talk page of un kurabiyesi. --176.239.123.144 (talk) 13:00, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Kurabiye - Tukrish

Not to cause problems, but my kurabiye link directs here, and while Iranian Qurabiya is a fantastic example, there are many other kinds of kurabiye, which currently have their own stubs. I wonder if it might be better to have one page covering the regional varieties of these ubiquitous tea cookies (which can be salty, as well as sweet) - it doesn't make sense to have 3+ stubs - and no mention of tuzlu kurabiye anywhere. Would anyone object to merging these pages, and adding futher information? Seraphimsystem (talk) 13:04, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Clean-up

I have reinserted the sourced background info about cookies in general that was removed without explanation. Also, I have removed all information about Tabriz/Iran/Iranian Azerbaijan being the place of origin. This has never been sourced. There exists no sourcing for mentioning any specific place.

Also, I have removed the Spanish polvorón and the unnamed Mexican/American cookies. There is not any explanation given about there being any connection, so they are not qurabiya, only similar. Mention of polvorón as a similar cookie and linking to that article, is fine, but that is all that belongs here.

Finally, there is no content at all in the subsection for Turkey, which is rather strange, since they even have different types of kurabiye with specific names. The suggestion by Seraphim System in the section just above, is fine. Please add (sourced) info in the Turkey section. Whether the existing stubs about different kurabiye should be merged or just linked to, depends mainly on how much content will be produced.

I have only done some clean-up. In general, the article is first and last in sore need of sources. --T*U (talk) 20:55, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping, I will add some sources and see about expanding the content.Seraphim System ^(talk) 20:59, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Turkish word ?

Hey IamNotU and thank you for the dubious template you added. Indeed, it appears that the source does not mention "Qurabiya" or even "Kurabiye". I don't speak Turkish, but i made a google search while combining the title of the source, its author and the words "Qurabiya" and then "Kurabiye", but the said words were struck in all the results. Cheers.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 03:21, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

Hi Wikaviani, you can find it in the book with this google search: [1]. Unfortunately it's "snippet view", so you can only see a small part of it. I spent some more time on it and pieced some parts together, apologies for transcription errors:

"130b/2 terkǐb-i ġurābǐ "kurabiye" kelimesinin kökeniyle ilgili birbirinden farklı görüşler bulunmaktadır: Meninski, karabiye biçiminde verdiği kelimenin Türkçe olduğunu söylüyor (Tezcan'dan: Meninski III 980). Redhouse, kurâbiyye olarak gösterdiği kelimenin Farsça kökenli olduğunu belirterek gurâbiyye' ye gönderir (Redhouse 1441). gurâbiyye maddesinde ise kelimenin Türkçe olduğunu söyledikten sonra halk dilinde kurabiye olarak kullanildığmı belirtir (Redhouse 1339). Kamus-i Türki de köken belirtilmeyerek Türkçe olduğu kabul ediliyor. Radloff Osmanlıca olarak gösteriyor (Radloff II, 924). Nişanyan ise kelimenin Arapça kökenli olduğunu söylüyor ve Arapçasının ġureybǐye(t)' un, şeker ve yağla yapılan ve fırında pişirilen tatlı < ? gureyb [garfb küc.] "küçük garip sey" anlamini vererek garip kelimesiyle birlestiriyor (Nisanyan 254)" --Muhammed bin Mahmûd-ı Şirvânî, in "15. yüzyıl Osmanlı mutfağı"

Google has trouble translating, but it's something more or less like this. Note, this is not at all reliable, and I edited it a bit to try to make sense:

"130b / 2 terkǐb-i ġurābǐ There are different opinions about the origin of the word "kurabiye": Meninski says that the word he gave in the form of karabiye was Turkish (from Tezcan: Meninski III, 980). Redhouse traces it to gurâbiyye 'ye (Redhouse 1441), stating that it is a Persian origin. Gurabiyya item came into Turkish after, saying that the word is used as cookies in the language. Kamus-i Türki is also considered to be Turkish without mentioning the origin. Radloff in Ottoman Turkish (Radloff II, 924). Nisanyan says that the word is of Arabic origin, and his Arabic (t) sweets made with sugar and butter and baked in the oven combine to express the "strange little thing" (Nisanyan 254)."

So the statement currently in the article, "Kurabiye appears in the Ottoman cuisine in the 15th century and the word's origin may be Turkish" is at least not following WP:NPOV, by failing to mention that it may also be Persian or Arabic. I'll try to fix that. I'm also not certain about the 15th century origin, as several sources have given the 17th as the oldest known written record of the word in Turkish, but again I'm not sure what the book actually says about that.

One more thing, Nişanyan in his 2009 book did give an Arabic origin, ġurayb/ğarîb meaning "small, exotic thing" and that is the basis of several other sources. However on his website this has been changed, and he now gives a Persian origin, gulābiya/gulāb, a cookie made with rosewater. --IamNotU (talk) 14:58, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

I did some editing, to reflect the above, and added some more citations. I left the "dubious" template on the statement "Kurabiye appears in the Ottoman cuisine in the 15th century". I'm not confident that the source actually says that, since it had been misrepresented earlier, and other reliable sources give the 17th century as the first appearance in writing. It may be that "cookies", for which "kurabiye" is now a generic name, did appear, but not necessarily almond shortbread cookies, or not necessarily called "kurabiye" at the time. --IamNotU (talk) 17:45, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Ghoriba into Qurabiya

Alternate names for the same food Spudlace (talk) 03:20, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

  Y Merger complete. Klbrain (talk) 17:44, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Kourabiedes into Qurabiya

Alternate names for the same food There is a section already in the Qurabiya article Spudlace (talk) 03:21, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

  Y Merger complete. Klbrain (talk) 06:44, 27 July 2021 (UTC)