Talk:Quilava

Quilava was a good article, but it was removed from the list as it no longer met the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.
Review: July 9, 2007.

Untitled

"By the time you have a Quilava in G/S/C, your rival will probably have a strong Croconaw. Since you will probably be in Azalea town, you will have access to a Bellsprout (Below Violet city) and/or a Mareep (Below Violet city. G/S only). Both these Pokemon are of advantage to Croconaw." -- Isn't that extremely POV? -- Deskana 18:10, 20 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Not really. Thery do have a type advantage. The issue I would have with that is that Wikipedia is not GameFAQs Sonic Mew | talk to me 14:42, 1 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

major rewrites performed and still needed

removed some in-universe perspective from sections, the orignal author can put it back in provided they can reference particular anime episodes (or it was a generally known aspect that persisted throughout the series) or manga issues that specifically state these things. Only Pokedex and general anime references remain. I cleaned up the video game section and added a paragraph detailing its moves. If you feel that this sort of paragraph is cruft please let me know if there's a consensus we could reach by simple rewriting either here or through my talk page.

I'd also like to know if anyone else thinks that the anime section should be skimmed down, considering it sounds more like an episode synopsis, mentioning things not really relevant to Quilava.

Macey first uses her Slugma against Ash's Totodile, being badly damaged due to the type disadvantage. Macey then withdrew Slugma, and released her Electabuzz. Knowing that he was now at a disadvantage, withdrew Totodile and released his Phanphy. Macey then changed her Electabuzz for her Slugma, which was knocked out by Phanphy's Earthquake attack.

Is this neccessary? i think it should focus only on Quilava and it relation with the trainer, success in the battle, moves employed and etc. likewise with the other reference in the "conductor" episode. It's an article about Quilava, not glalie and charizard.

Zappernapper 21:06, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

We're discussing the episode, not just the character within. GA reviewers prefer this system. H ig hway ^{Return to Oz...} 21:22, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I would rather you further explained why my rewrites were nonsensical instead of merely reversing them... But i shall go over piece by piece why i made the changes i did and you can explain each point -

Quilava is the Stage-1 evolution of Cyndaquil, the Fire-type choice in Pokémon Gold, Silver and Pokémon Crystal for the Nintendo Game Colour. Quilava undergo evolution, a metamorphic change within a Pokémon caused by gaining experience in battle, twice. They can evolve as a Cyndaquil into Quilava, their Stage 1 (middle) forms at level 14, and again into their Stage 2 (final) forms, Typhlosion, at Level 36.

(My version)Quilava is the Stage-1 evolution of Cyndaquil, the starting Fire-type choice in Pokémon Gold, Silver and Crystal for the Nintendo Game Colour. At level 36 Quilava "evolve," a metamorphic change within a Pokémon caused by gaining experience in battle,[7] into their final stage (Stage 3), Typhlosion.

In this paragraph I merely added the word starter (for better continuity); removed Pokemon from in front of Crystal (it's obviously brought over from earlier in the sentence); Quilava do NOT evolve twice, Cyndaquil does; the sentence, "they [Quilava] can evolve as Cyndaquil into Quilava..." is nonsensical and redundant. I recognize my errors (stage 2 not stage 3, and a comma after Silver) and would be happy to correct them but will not get in an edit war over this.

... Quilava are Fire-type Pokémon, so their attacks are particularly effective against Grass-, Bug-, Ice- and Steel-type, Pokémon, but Water-, Rock-, Ground-type attacks are particularly effective against them. Attacks of the Fire-, Grass-, Bug-, Ice- and Steel-types do little damage to Quilava, and Quilava do little damage to other Fire-types, as well as to Water-, Rock-, Ground- or Dragon-types. All other types have no particular advantage or disadvantage when facing Quilava.

(my version)... Quilava are Fire-type Pokémon, so they naturally are resistent to Grass and Steel attacks (the firey nature of their bodies can burn or melt away these attacks, respectively), while being severely hurt by Water, Rock, and Ground types (dirt and water are obvious ways of extinguish real-world fire). However in several instances the Fire type is evenly matched (e.g. Fighting, Ghost, and Dark), neither Pokémon having a specific advantage.

the type of the pokemon has no bearing in its attack's effectiveness against other types of pokemon, only the attack's type; additionally this list gets into minutiae that border on fancruft. If someone really wants to know everything about fire's strenths and weaknesses they can click the wiki link or ref link. Giving a general idea about how fire in particular plays out and some reasoning behind it (which was lacking) is all that's needed, i might also add this particular paragraph is heavily wikified so i don't understand the need to go on and on listing every single type advantage and weakness.

Finally the last paragraph i thought was a rather nice, non-crufty way to add in a few of the moves Quilava is able to learn, basing all observations off of well-defined pokedex data. If you feel this kind of paragraph has no place in an article then maybe you should go delete it off the Bulbasaur article as well, yeah, the one that meets all standards and has been featured....

Being a Fire-type Pokémon, Quilava are privy to a range of fire-based attacks, namely Flamthrower and the highly specialized Flame Wheel (reserved specifically for nimbler Pokémon). The heat of their body also allows them to make smoke, using it in the move Smokescreen. Their agility lets them naturally learn Quick Attack, or be taught Aerial Ace (a speedy aerial attack that can't miss). While Quilava don't always stand on their hind legs, they are still capable of pulling off moves like Crush Claw, Fury Swipes, and Thrash if bred for it.

I specifically asked for people to write me first before deleting that paragraph so that we could reach a consensus, it would have been much more considerate to contact me before reversing all my edits in the video games section. Zappernapper 23:02, 7 August 2006 (UTC) P.S. i'm aware there are spelling and possibly other grammatical errors, but that's what having a wiki is all about[reply]

Since Highway has taken a wikibreak I've gone ahead and reverted this topic and made some more revisions, any feedback (not inconsiderate reversions and removals) and further revisions are welcome! Zappernapper 06:54, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is that Nintendo has never stated specifically that the advantage of water over fire comes from the water extinguishing water, or that Pokémon must be fast to Flame Wheel. It's not that the edits are intrinsically bad, and while it is a pretty commonsense conclusion to come to, it has two problems: it sounds more in-universe, not less ("Quilava can learn flame wheel" versus "Quilava are privy to a range of fire-based attacks, namely ... the highly specialized Flame Wheel (reserved specifically for nimbler Pokémon)", and it is technically Original Research, which Wikipedia tends be rather tough on. Mind you, I agree that some of this stuff needs a rewrite (perhaps "evolves from a Cyndaquill" rather than "They can evolve as a Cyndaquil into Quilava". smurrayinchester^{(User), (Talk)} 16:55, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, that's all i was looking for (a critique on the last paragraph rather than complete reversion of everything), and appreciate the feedback. You may be right about the nimbleness being connected to Flame Wheel being too in-universe. Perhaps to discuss Quilava's move pool a sentence like, "Like many other Fire-type pokemon, Quilava naturally learn several fire based attacks like Flamethrower and Flame Wheel. Trainers can also teach (wiki that) Quilava the powerful move Fire Blast." So what about the listing of every type adv/dis for fire? it seems to appear commonly but i feel like it gets into too much detail for an article about Quilava especially since "Fire-type" is wikied. Zappernapper 19:06, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hidden references

While trying to figure out why there's a gap in the References section of the article, I discovered that there's a lot of citations hidden inside of comment tags. Can anyone explain why they're like that? --Brandon Dilbeck 21:56, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

They're part of the Template:Pokerefs, which we use in all articles. Some article use them, while others leave them hidden. Cheers, H ig hway ^{Return to Oz...} 13:34, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

GA

This article is a GA. Before nominating it for FA, however, I'd reccomend creating a Pokemon TCG section, like in Bulbasaur. Some P. E rson 22:05, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it's ready to be a GA. It contains content that's most certainly guide content - what level Quilava evolves at, what his type helps him fight against, what a starter is, etc. Also, the manga needs its own section, and the portmanteau thing is speculative - the definition of quill makes a compelling argument, but that doesn't show that it was there intention, and Wikipedians can't present arguments to prove that something is true. - A Link to the Past (talk) 19:37, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]