Talk:Queen of Sheba/Archive 1

Archive 1

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 1 September 2021 and 15 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Tiyyah18.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 07:36, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Untitled

The Queen of Sheba, both as a historical person (possibly), and as a mythic figure, deserves a more grown-up entry. Wetman

The article implies information from the Bible, which it is not. Everything after the first sentence is legendary. Pollinator 12:29, 5 Nov 2003 (UTC)

No one else has corrected the error, and I can't myself, as I do not know the source of this statement, wrongly attributed to the Bible, so am moving it here: The king tricked her into bed with him. She later gave birth to a son, which was not accepted by the critizing elders of the council. She returned to her kingdom with the son Menelik? and later established a kingdom in Aksum, modern-day Ethiopia. Possibly it's a tradition of the Ethiopian royal family. If so it should be attributed correctly. Pollinator 04:49, 1 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Bilqis redirect

I redirected the Bilqis article to this one as the debate seemed to be dead. I think it makes sense because Bilqis is referenced here. ka1iban 17:04, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Can some one explain to us the meaning of "makeda"? I cannot accept the meaning (not like this / thus) which is a modern dialectal Arabic: maa kida(Sudanese).

Is that where that meaning comes from? It's surely wrong, then, since it is not Arabic in origin. I'll remove it now. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 17:28, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Modern Theories needs source or sources

Will a knowledgeable person kindly provide sources for this section, or else somebody (namely me) will delete it. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis 07:55, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Modern theories

A theory has been voiced that the meeting between Solomon and the Queen of Sheba was not for love or admiration but a discussion about trade. According to the Bible Solomon built a fleet of ships at Ezion-geber. The theory is that Solomon intended to routinely sail to East Africa and there trade, bypassing the South Arabian kingdom of Sheba which previously acted as middleman in this trade.[citation needed]

Sheba's Kingdom was in Yemen. Not Ethiopia, as known by everyone and agreed by historians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.8.224.95 (talk) 12:38, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

The Axum Kingdom and the Arabian Peninsula

The following sentence seems to be an add-on: "There has been evidence of Arab tribes in Arabia, not there has been no evidence of a Queen called Bilqis or any female ruler ever over Arab tribes of Arabia." This add-on is not grammatical, and it contradicts archaeological findings in Yemen. Indeed, we have proofs that the Axum (African, pre-Ethiopian) kingdom has extended into the southern tip of the Arabian peninsula for some time. Therefore, this sentence is confused (if not misleading) and should be deleted. Hugo Dufort 02:10, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I have also corrected the second-to-last sentence, making the geography more specific ("southern tip of the Arabic Peninsula (actual Yemen)" instead of simply "Arabia"). Hugo Dufort 02:10, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Best name ever?

"According to the Jewish law, Sheba's name was ULTRAEXTREME70." While this might be a great name, and I'll certainly considering giving it to any children I have, I don't think it's a correct translation from Hebrew. Does anyone who knows better than me about a) the subject at hand, and b) Wikipedia (since this is my first post), care to correct it? 216.86.36.211 20:43, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

The entire sentence is a piece of vandalism that was added two days ago and removed again within a few minutes. You seem to be looking at an old version. If you are new to wikipedia, all you have to do to get the current version is click the 'article' tab. ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 23:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Modern African Account

What is the point of the "Modern African Account" section of this article? Beside the fact that everything stated lacks citation, the paragraph not only fails to relate any modern African account but exists in parallel with the actual modern African account related under "Ethiopian and Eritrean Account" heading. I suggest that the information contained in this paragraph, if it be truly pertinant and accurate, be properly cited and placed under a relevent heading.--Jr mints 21:37, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

The Ethiopian account has citations in the beginning paragraph...to give the citations from Kebra Nagast would be usless unless you read GE'EZ (I still can't find a reputable translated version without speaking to the Ethiopian priests). There is always controversy among scholars when African (or any other people of color) history appear to contradict the myth of white supremacy and myth of the European involvement in the bible before the New Testament. It is not coincidental. Watch the history channel: Scottish, Irish, and Confederate (U.S.) ethnocentric zealots are treated as if they have delivered the gospel of their respective cultures and never contradicted despite being without proper citation. Many of the written references that the aforementioned groups cite are from ethnocentric sources or some form of undocumented oral lore that was formulated well after the historical events that they have professed to have occured. Yet scholars continue to discredit the Kebra Negast from a culture that has held documentation this history for more that 700 years...try 3000+ years and to this very day lives in a culture that is the most similar to the bibles description than any other!!! Somehow the history channel takes the Irish, Scots and Confederates at their word although the three cultures were not as proficient as the Ethiopians with written documentation or the oral tradition. Different rules apply for European ethnocentrics... I suppose. My citations will appear in a separate post although I doubt many of you etnocentrics will accept them..... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.172.201.186 (talk • contribs)

Also their language is most like the ancient language of the person in question lol (Aramaic) Allanana79 (talk) 02:32, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Old Vandalism

I removed some old vandalism that looked like it had been overlooked in some recent edits. Silly people... Amers4 12:06, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

The Ethiopian account has citations in the beginning paragraph...to give the citations from Kebra Nagast would be usless unless you read GE'EZ (I still can't find a reputable translated version without speaking to the Ethiopian priests). There is always controversy among scholars when African (or any other people of color) history appear to contradict the myth of white supremacy and myth of the European involvement in the bible before the New Testament. It is not coincidental. Watch the history channel: Scottish, Irish, and Confederate (U.S.) ethnocentric zealots are treated as if they have delivered the gospel of their respective cultures and never contradicted despite being without proper citation. Many of the written references that the aforementioned groups cite are from ethnocentric sources or some form of undocumented oral lore that was formulated well after the historical events that they have professed to have occured. Yet scholars continue to discredit the Kebra Negast from a culture that has held documentation this history for more that 700 years...try 3000+ years and to this very day lives in a culture that is the most similar to the bibles description than any other!!! Somehow the history channel takes the Irish, Scots and Confederates at their word although the three cultures were not as proficient as the Ethiopians with written documentation or the oral tradition. Different rules apply for European ethnocentrics... I suppose. My citations will appear in a separate post although I doubt many of you etnocentrics will accept them..... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.172.201.186 (talk • contribs)

Queen Sheba: NO Queen of Sheba: YES

Queen Sheba or Sheba is not right. The Queen of Sheba is often called Sheba or Queen Sheba. Though the article title is Queen of Sheba, she is often referred to as Queen Shebaor Sheba in this article. Is this right? Thin Smek 00:29, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

The account of the conversion (besides disagreeing with the account in the Bible) is different from the historical accounts given elsewhere on Wikipedia. Also, the bit about the Ethiopian emperor's resentment is pretty broad obviously needs some citation.

For the Ethiopian monarchy, the Solomonic and Sheban lineage was of considerable political and cultural importance. Ethiopia had been converted to Christianity by Egyptian Copts, and the Coptic Church strove for centuries to keep the Ethiopians in a dependent and subservient condition, which the Ethiopian emperors greatly resented. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.44.181.12 (talk) 21:02, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Kebra Nagast.jpg

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• That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
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This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --01:52, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Handel

Didn't see a section to insert this nugget... "The Arrival of the Queen of Sheba" from Handel's oratorio Solomon is one of the best known instrumental pieces of the Baroque era.

Could this go here? Or is it too trivial?DavidRF (talk) 02:26, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

All depictions of her in art, should charted in chronological order.--24.57.59.196 (talk) 01:25, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Velikovsky

Citing to anything related to Velikovsky is not a way to produce reliable work. You should take it out until you find a separate source for the info and then cite that. 4.249.3.239 (talk) 22:40, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. The entire section on "Possible Egyptian derivation" appears to be speculation and rubbish. HAt-Spsswt means 'foremost of the august [women]', i.e., foremost nobelwoman. How Spsswt becomes 'Sheba', I don't know. The rest of the section appears to be nonsense. I intend to delete it for now, chiefly because of the bizarre claims about Hatshepsut's name, and the fact that 'some scholars' in this case means 'Velikovsky and his followers'. Aside from it being a rather nebulous phrase, to say the least. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.25.215.130 (talk) 15:27, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Why were these edits undone? They were reverted in a minute without any comment here, and by a user who does not even count Egypt within their scope, and who apparently has little to no knowledge of the subject. The claims relating to Hatshepsut are pure nonsense, while the equally ridiculous suggested etymology of 'Sheba' from 'sbA' is beyond parody. Maybe for an encore we can claim that Dido, Queen of Carthage is a myth relating to the Dodo? After all, they look the same, too! This kind of ridiculous claptrap only devalues wikipedia. 92.25.215.130 (talk) 19:52, 22 March 2010 (UTC)Nefertum

Reliability

this article has serious problems in differentiating between historical evidence and legend. It needs a major rewrite.AMuseo (talk) 21:36, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Sheba was not some "Jewish" kingdom. It was Aryan kingdom, also known as "Shiva", Sava, Saba... Ethiopia comes from "E'Shivopia - Thebe from Sheba as Shivait Aryan territory; this is the reason why so many Swastikas in Ethiopia and in near locations... Shiva's territory predates year 12 000 BC. And has nothing to do with Jews or whatsoever.

Modern Portrayals

This article needs information about the portrayal of the Queen more recently than the Renaissance, and also the various legends about her.--Jack Upland (talk) 01:33, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Birthday?

Can someone clarify (and source) the reputed birthday of January 5? She was born several centuries before introduction of the month of January into the Roman calendar, which probably didn't make it to that part of the world until much later anyway, so what does a it mean to say she was born on January 5? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.12.184.7 (talk) 17:16, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Hebrew biblical accounts

The title of this section needs to be fixed. The Qur'an is not part of the Hebrew Bible (which is usually called the Torah or the Old Testament), nor is the New Testament, nor is Ethiopian legend. Either we need separate sections for all the different cultural/religious views, or we need a neutral title (such as Religious Mythological Accounts). Umm huraira (talk) 20:58, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

There's been no reply so I'm going to go ahead and change the title of this section to be more in line with what it's discussing, which is Mythological Accounts. Umm huraira (talk) 13:16, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Don't revert my changes again without bringing something to the discussion. Umm huraira (talk) 00:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

The term "mythological" is highly contentious, and often seen as polemical POV according to numerous RSS. It is best avoided in the name of neutrality. What exactly do you mean to say by "mythological"? Critics have enumerated at least 12 conflicting "definitions". If you mean "false" or "fictional", you are expressing your own subjective POV about texts that other widespread POVs regard as factual. If you mean "a narrative to explain how the world was created", as wikipedia ostensibly has defined it, it doesn't fit this account. No two scholars seems to agree exactly which parts of whose sacred scriptures ought to be defined as "mythological". The idea you expressed on my talk pages that ALL religion's scriptures are a priori the same thing as "mythology" is the POV expressed by certain Marxist-Leninist handbooks, not by a neutral encyclopedia. For fairly obvious reasons, there is no consensus on wikipedia to go around to all Bible or Quran articles and label them with the POV title "mythology". If you continue to make a mockery of WP:NPOV against consensus, this dispute is surely going to escalate. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 01:00, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

So what do you suggest I do? As it stands, this section has a hierarchy that lists the Qur'an and Ethiopian cultural accounts as being part of the Hebrew Bible. Do you not see an issue with that? I'm merely trying to pick an academic title that reflects the nature of all documents listed in this section. "Hebrew Bible" certainly fails in that regard. Mythological is the word of choice in social science academia here in America. Find another neutral term that doesn't suggest the superiority or inferiority of any religion/culture and we'll change it to that. Meanwhile, listing other texts underneath the heading of Hebrew Bible is offensive to the adherents of those religions/members of those cultures, so it is not satisfactory. If anything, it's an argument for Judaism as a superior religion. Umm huraira (talk) 17:43, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

And I'm not making a "mockery" of WP:NPOV as it states specifically that "editors should not avoid using terminology that has been established by the majority of the current reliable and notable sources on a topic out of... concern that readers may confuse the formal and informal meanings." Frankly, I find it insulting that you claim to know exactly my intentions and what I'm thinking. Mockery never even entered my mind. For further evidence regarding the usage of mythology, see the page titled Christian mythology and note how it refers to hero myths. The Queen of Sheba is a part of the hero myth of Soloman. Umm huraira (talk) 18:06, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Ethiopian legends about Alexander

There's an Ethiopian Alexander romance. Dougweller (talk) 14:58, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, I had never read it, but I looked it up and am reading Budge's translation online now. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 18:06, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Sheba & Solomon, text moved from article

There is a serious discrepancy in the dates of either King Salomon's time or that of Queen of Sheba. According to another article "The conventional dates of Salomon's reign are from circa 970 to 931 BC" So how did the two meet in 10 BC is quite mind boggling.I have searched all over en.Wikipedia and internet but do not find any amicable date to see how they met. Only one fact does remain and undisputed from accounts in Genesis to Quaran that they did meet.— Preceding unsigned comment added by ‎AwesomeDIY (talk • contribs)

I moved this from the article as it belongs here. Do you mean 10th century? 970 is in the 10th century. I removed January 5 as I couldn't find any suggestion of that date. Dougweller (talk) 05:33, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Facts

Both the article and this discussion are pretty crappy, as expected for this forum. This reflect the modern trend, as this wiki is really only for basic and trivially simple things. The authors are unqualified as they are not researchers or gifted with insight. The comments regarding I. Velikovsky, whose research abilities, language skills, and basic common sense dwarf those writing and commenting on this topic do not belong here. If you want to remove rubbish, remove all references to him.

xx

Article would be enhanced by inclusion of a piece about the connection between the Queen of Sheba and Lilith legends. See, for example... http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0013_0_12540.html http://www.timelessmyths.com/mirrors/lilith.php#Biblical

makeda

we know that she was queen of a land called sheba(ethiopia). but her name was makeda. it would be correct if it's written in the article.89.205.2.29 (talk) 13:01, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Chatterbox

El Cazangero, you have made some controversial edits ("Chatter..") and reverted my revert with the notion "Talk". I would highly prefer you came up with better reasons for that and if you ask for using the talk page, then do so yourself. As long as you don't provide any valid reason, I tend to ignore and restore, but lets see what you have to say. Serten (talk) 04:27, 13 October 2014 (UTC) PS.: No reaction from your side. I did some changes on the lede, but have restored the rest. As said, try to provide reasons for changes which are acceptable.

Again, start talkimg and refrain from further controversial edits. Serten (talk) 22:06, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

??? Serten (talk) 07:03, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

mythology of Sheba's donkey foot

I came to this article because of a paragraph in African Myths by Gary Jeffrey book published by Rosen Publishing. Wikipedia article mentions "rumour that the Queen has hairy legs and the foot of an ass". The paragraph (on page 45) in the Gary Jeffrey book says Sheba (aka Makeda) was "A historical figure who also appears in Ethiopian myths, and in Christian and Islamic Stories. Shea ... was to be sacificed to the serpent-king, Arwe. Arwe is killed but as he dies, a drop of his blood falls onto Makeda's foot and changes it into a donkey's hoof. ..."

Another book The Queen of Sheba: Legend, Literature and Lore seems to have more details on page 162: "... By contrast, Ethiopian legend states her deformity was incurred by her by her being bitten by her pet jackal, and Eritreans say her foot became malformed as a donkey's hoof when dragon blood dropped on her flesh. ..."

Would it be ok to add (to the Wikipedia aricle) more detail about this mythology about Sheba? --EarthFurst (talk) 22:12, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

fertile cycles of legends

Are the editors sure they want to use fertile in "fertile cycles of legends"??? How about "many legends have arisen over the years."(PeacePeace (talk) 06:04, 19 February 2018 (UTC))

Her story isn't completed

Well since I am a Muslim I see that the presentation of the Queen of Saba' in the section of "Muslim traditional" isn't completed and not the full story and how she converted as its mentioned in Surat An-Naml https://quran.com/27 as there is no mentioning of the Hoopoe story SharabSalam (talk) 15:17, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

Removal of unverified categories

Per WP:CATV Categorization of articles must be verifiable. It should be clear from verifiable information in the article why it was placed in each of its categories. The article does not source the claim that the Queen of Sheba is any kind of saint. Therefore the categories Muslim female saints, Muslim female saints from the Old Testament have been removed. Per WP:CATDEF A central concept used in categorizing articles is that of the defining characteristics of a subject of the article. A defining characteristic is one that reliable sources commonly and consistently define the subject as having". It is not a defining characteristic of the Queen of Sheba that she is an "Islamic figure" so this category has also been removed.Smeat75 (talk) 00:41, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Queen Sheba Myth and Orgin

Unraveling the Mystery of Queen Saba: A Closer Look at Psalms 72

Psalms 72, a poetic and symbolic text in the biblical Book of Psalms, has long captivated scholars and enthusiasts alike with its enigmatic references to various nations and individuals, including the Sabian, Arabian, and Ethiopian. Among these figures, one character stands out prominently: Queen Saba, whose origins and identity have sparked fervent debate and speculation throughout history.

In Psalms 72, the Sabian, Arabian, and Ethiopian are described separately and independently, igniting curiosity about the true lineage and background of Queen Saba. While some interpretations view these descriptions as referring to distinct geographical regions or ethnic groups, others delve into the realm of myth and legend, portraying Queen Saba as an otherworldly being—a figure of mystery and wonder.

One intriguing interpretation posits Queen Saba as an alien entity, a being who transcends conventional human understanding. According to this perspective, Queen Saba is depicted as half-human, half-faun—a hybrid creature embodying elements of both humanity and the supernatural. Such interpretations draw parallels with ancient mythologies and folklore, where beings of divine or extraterrestrial origin often interacted with mortal realms.

Furthermore, the question of Queen Saba's true homeland adds another layer of intrigue to the narrative. While present-day Eritrea and Ethiopia are both plausible candidates for the location of Queen Saba's kingdom, proponents of each region passionately advocate for their respective claims. Despite the lack of conclusive historical evidence, the debate continues to fuel scholarly discourse and popular imagination.

In considering the possible origins of Queen Saba, I am inclined to align with the belief that her kingdom likely resided in Eritrea. This assertion is based on a combination of historical context, cultural heritage, and geographical factors. Eritrea's rich history, marked by its ancient civilizations and strategic location along the Red Sea coast, provides a compelling backdrop for the legendary reign of Queen Saba. Moreover, Eritrea's cultural ties to ancient Ethiopia, coupled with its distinct identity and traditions, underscore its potential connection to the enigmatic queen.

However, it is essential to acknowledge that the true identity of Queen Saba may forever remain shrouded in mystery and interpretation. As with many figures of antiquity, her legacy transcends historical fact, weaving a tapestry of myth and symbolism that continues to inspire fascination and inquiry.

In conclusion, Psalm 72 offers a tantalizing glimpse into the world of Queen Saba—a figure whose origins and identity defy easy categorization. Whether viewed as a mortal monarch, a celestial being, or a mythical archetype, Queen Saba remains an enduring symbol of power, wisdom, and enigma. As we continue to explore the depths of scripture and legend, the mystery of Queen Saba will undoubtedly endure, captivating hearts and minds for generations to come. 82.139.134.200 (talk) 20:08, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

BC years go in reverse, right?

I'm confused by this sentence:

"Since there is no mention of the Fall of Babylon in 539 BC, Martin Noth has held that the Book of Kings received a definitive redaction around 550 BC."

No document existing in 550 BC would have mentioned something happening in 539 BC, since 539 BC is 11 years after 550 BC. So how is that an indication that something was redacted? Caseyroberson (talk) 16:11, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

The phrase means that there were no significant changes in the Book of Kings after 550 BCE, which would explain why there were no mentions of the Fall of Babylon. Dimadick (talk) 16:19, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. The sentence still isn't 100% clear that that's what it means. A "definitive redaction" indicates to me only that it was the last redaction, not the last change. Caseyroberson (talk) 16:28, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Balqis/Bilqis: pls clarify

The jump between i and a is not very common. Arminden (talk) 10:39, 6 July 2024 (UTC)