Talk:Pylyp Orlyk

Military history: Biography / Russian & Soviet / Early Modern B‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

B

This article has been rated as B-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Military biography task force
	Russian, Soviet and CIS military history task force
	Early Modern warfare task force (c. 1500 – c. 1800)

Belarus

	Belarus portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Belarus, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Belarus on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BelarusWikipedia:WikiProject BelarusTemplate:WikiProject BelarusBelarus articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.

Ukraine High‑importance

	Ukraine portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ukraine, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ukraine on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.UkraineWikipedia:WikiProject UkraineTemplate:WikiProject UkraineUkraine articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Biography: Military

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the military biography work group (assessed as Low-importance).

Conversion to Islam??

Quote from the article:

After 1720 [Pylyp Orlyk] returned to Turkey and allegedly converted to Islam.

I somehow doubt that statement. Does anyone have any references that back this? —dima ^{• talk • sb •} 04:37, 20 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt it too; it should be deleted unless it can be substantiated. Languagehat 22:07, 5 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the original link : http://litopys.org.ua/scherer/sher02.htm, Quote from the source: Згодом він прийняв мусульманство й одружився з турчанкою, від якої мав багато дітей. The link is also quoted here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Ukraine, under the famous painting. Thinks that is a substantial enough source. I advice to restore the conversion statement back into the text.

The story of conversion to Islam is mentioned in comments to Pushkin's Poltava:

"Филипп Орлик, генеральный писарь, наперсник Мазепы, после смерти (в 1710) сего последнего получил от Карла XII пустой титул малороссийского гетмана. Впоследствии принял магометанскую веру и умер в Бендерах около 1736 года."

In the Russian Wikipedia page on Orlyk, this is explained as follows:

"существовала версия, что во время жизни в Турции он принял ислам (восходящая к книге французского историка и дипломата Жана Бенуа Шерера, который также писал, что Орлик женился на турчанке и имел от неё детей). Она приведена, в частности, в авторских примечаниях к пушкинской «Полтаве»."

Semi-literal translation: "there had been a version that while living in Turkey he adopted Islam (going back to the book by the French historian and diplomat Jean-Benoit Scherer, who also wrote that Orlyk married a Turkish women and had children by her). It is given in partuclar in the author's comments to Pushkin's "Poltava".

And someone added a reference to this article:

Jean-Benoit Scherer, Annales de la Petite-Russie, ou Histoire des Cosaques-Saporogues et des Cosaques de l'Ukraine.

Sergivs-en (talk) 01:53, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Birthplace

The article on Ukrainian wikipedia [1] and encyclopedia of Ukraine [2] and here give a different town of his birthplace: in Косут Ошмянського повіту. Ostap 02:44, 1 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ostap, it's actually the same thing. See this article, second paragraph.--Riurik^(discuss) 02:25, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I did not know that. Thank you for clarifying. Ostap 02:31, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hetman in exile

Quote from the article:

After the Battle of Poltava in 1709, he escaped together with Hetman Ivan Mazepa and king Charles XII of Sweden to Bender in Ottoman Empire...

Bender was a city of the Principality of Moldova, which "enjoyed some degree of incomplete sovereignty under Turkish rule, in that it was never annexed and integrated as a pashalik, or province, into the Ottoman Empire, as were, for instance, Bulgaria, Serbia, and, for a short time, Hungary" (quote from the Historical Dictionary of Moldova, pag. 333, 2007, 2nd edition). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Free-Dacian (talk • contribs) 04:50, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Constitution" by Philip Orlik

Was found in Russian achieves, see here (in (in Ukrainian)). Is this worth mentioning? — Mariah-Yulia (talk) 07:02, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Of course it is worth. I have to say that this paper is actually not written in Ukrainian. Its language is extremly close to the literary Russian. "Pylyp" ("Пилип") even calls him Filipp (Филипп) there.(irony) The only essential difference is some very rare polonisms like "рок" ("rok") and "нехай" ("niechaj"). Well, it is indeed a good example of the Small Russian dialect. — Glebchik (talk) 18:08, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Here you can get acquainted with the original text of this "constitution" [3] — Glebchik (talk) 18:15, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Nice, but no cigar. The Orlyk constitution was originally written in Latin, FYI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Pylyp_Orlyk

--Galassi (talk) 19:57, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Is was written in two versions — in Latin and in a dialect of Russian ("Old Ukrainian"). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Glebchik (talk • contribs) 12:52, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Years in office and title

According to the current version of the page, Orlyk was in office as Hetman of Ukraine from 1710 to 1742, preceded by Ivan Mazepa (in office 1687-1708) and succeeded by Ivan Skoropadsky (in office 1708-1722, died in 1722). Obviously, there is a discrepancy in dates. It is well known that Orlyk was a hetman in exile only, recognized by the Cossacks in exile and the king of Sweden. When he succeeded Mazepa as the hetman-in-exile, Skoropadsky had already been holding the title of hetman for about a year and a half, since November 1708. Thus, Orlyk was never succeded by anyone as hetman-in-exhile, much less in 1742 as hetman by Skoropadsky, who died in 1722.

Furthermore, there were no "Hetmans of Ukraine" until 1918, and the only person to hold such a title was Pavlo (Pavel) Skoropadsky, great-great-grandson of Ivan Skoropansky. In the times of Orlyk, there were Hetmans of the Cossack Army (not sure what the established translation is).

Sergivs-en (talk) 07:31, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, and the phrase "Hetman of Ukraine in exile" on the page links to the page on the 1918 position - this should definitely be removed as it's misleading. FlibbaDibbaDoo (talk) 13:39, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]