Talk:Pure (Godflesh album)

Fair use rationale for Image:Godflesh Pure.jpg

Image:Godflesh Pure.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 00:28, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Pure (Godflesh album)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Mujinga (talk · contribs) 23:27, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Opening remarks

I will give this page a good read through and begin my review in the next days. Mujinga (talk) 23:27, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

beginning review - my opinion at this stage is that the article needs some tweaking but should pass, it has no editwars or copyvios. Now i'll go through section by section and check the references. Mujinga (talk) 08:25, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Lead

• I will prefer to give some extra more detailed comments on the lead after having gone through the other sections, but I do feel it could summarise the article better. To begin with, I would say the spelling/formatting style needs to be decided between US and British English. I don't think it matters particularly which one it is (although Godflesh are UK-based), it just needs to be consistent. Then the date '13 April 1992' can be fixed according to Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Dates_and_numbers and 'labeled' can either stay under US spelling or go to 'labelled' under British English.

Extra comments:

• Musically, Pure is harsh and mechanical, with protracted songs and an abundance of deliberate repetition needs a rewrite to add in something about instruments used eg harsh guitar and industrial hiphop beats
• Godflesh frontman Justin Broadrick considers it one of the band's most honest releases - better to rewrite to reflect some of the quoted statements
• needs a sentence or two on the positive critical reception
• wikilink industrial metal

Background

• It's a bit confusing that the article states Streetcleaner to be the first album and the reference states it was the second album. I can see it's because the Godflesh EP is being taken as an album in the reference, but is there an authoritative view on this? Checking discogs it seems to take Pure as the fourth album.
• Further, discogs suggests the release date for Pure was 1991 not 1992 i take that back, 1992 is the accepted date and 1991 was a testpressing
• It's great there's a page ref for Mudrian, Albert (2004). Choosing Death: The Improbable History of Death Metal & Grindcore. Bazillion Points. pp. 279–280 - having checked it I wouldn't say it really backs up the sentence. I can put the text here if you need it.
• After However, at the time, the band were limited to 8-track reel-to-reel recording tape, which stifled some of his ambitions the references are listed 6/5, instead of 5/6. I see the same thing happening later on as well.
• The reference https://web.archive.org/web/20160406214957/http://www.godflesh.com/articles/article13.html# doesn't talk about Pure or reel2reel, it's talking about Streetcleaner and drum machines.
• The album's title comes from Broadrick's idea that purity (especially a child's view of it[8]) is strength.[9] reads a bit awkwardly because of the referencing. I would suggest putting both refs at the end of the sentence.

Composition

• The quote in the box doesn't need to have quotes on it. I would suggest either removing them or adding fat-quotes as per Template:Quote_box
• Pure is often characterised its harsh, discordant and mechanical sound,[11][5][12] with many critics noting its extreme weight and inhospitable mood.[13][14][15] this sentence needs some work. There's too many references and there should be a 'by' or 'for' after characterised
• Unlike Streetcleaner, which featured intentionally loose guitar playing - this isn't backed by the ref which says in full: Representing the next phase of death metal is Godflesh’s Streetcleaner, which dispenses with standard headbanger rhythms in favor of an industrial-noise collage that’s almost arty. Sounding like a visit to an out-of-control crackhouse that sits next to a train station, ”Streetcleaner” should make Stephen King think twice about calling the comparatively tame AC/DC his favorite band.
• Pure is intensely structured, regimented and stiff, dominated by repetition;[17][12] The Times of Northwest Indiana called it "colossally repetitive".[18] i'm unable on a first attempt to check these refs, in particular i want to check the direct quote.
• The guitar tone, a sound first explored by Broadrick on the 1991 Godflesh single "Slateman", is tinny and deliberately grating. Outright riffs are rare, leaving Green's bass and the programmed drums to guide the songs i don't really see the ref backing this up, it doesn't mention Green's bass or Slateman and says Mothra has a riff
• Mike Gitter of RIP Magazine and Spin - Spin doesn't need to be mentioned does it? [now i see the Spin ref later on] Also i guess a better link for RIP would be Larry_Flynt_Publications#Other_magazines. Nice quotes by the way from Gitter!
• Hampson's and Broadrick's guitars often hang in the background, leading Pure to be a notably percussive album with hip hop-inspired elements has three references. In Palmerston it says We had touched on hip-hop beats on our second album, [1992's Pure]. These ideas were never fully realized. Buckley links to a page not included on googlebooks for me. Pogo is French and says A la fois le Pure de 1992 et Songs of Love and Hate étaient emplis de science proto-brekbeats, tout comme la contrepartie remixée de Songs of Love and Hate , Love and Hate in Dub . Etant donné l'appétit de Broadrick pour les nouveaux sons, son engagement dans la bourgeonnante scène drum and bass était peut être inévitable, les nouveaux développements musicaux étant habituellement incorporés dans les nombreuses facettes de son travail.
• The Chicago Tribune ref is being used again for direct quotes so I'd like to see it, sadly so far every way i tried is blocked because i'm in Europe.
• The second track and the album's only single, "Mothra", is a lively, driving song with some lyrics borrowed from Leonard Cohen's 1971 song "Avalanche".[25][26][27] - the Avalanche ref can be deleted and wikilink made to to Avalanche (Leonard Cohen song). Do the liner notes specify that Mothra uses the Cohen lyrics? Since the interview only states Some of the lyrics on the album Pure are inspired by Leonard Cohen
• The Melody Maker ref is also being used for direct quotes, so I'll try to get access to check that.

pausing here for now Mujinga (talk) 11:12, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

• is built around a rhythm sample from "Let the Rhythm Hit 'Em" (1990) could also be is built around a rhythm sample from the eponymous title track of "Let the Rhythm Hit 'Em" (1990)
• Still, when referring to what he considers and what he believes fans consider to be true Godflesh material, Broadrick often includes Pure.[34][35] - the refs don't really back this up, 34 only has the reviewer's opinion and 35 is in french and broadrick says he sees the album as a cohesive whole. i'd say it needs rephraseing or removal
• The album remains a staple of Godflesh's relatively picky live sets, with "Spite" and "Mothra" appearing most often - needs a ref but reads like original research

Release

• The Loop song "Straight to Your Heart", which had been covered by Godflesh on the bands' 1991 split EP Loopflesh / Fleshloop, was also played.[40][41][42]} - this sentence doesn't add much regarding Pure, I'd say it's better to remove

Critical reception

• Nice section, just the last sentence needs some work: *Some critics viewed Pure as more consistent than Streetcleaner, with greater attention paid to its beats and grooves.[49] - since other critics are named it seems better to say this is roy christopher's opinion rather than "some critics"

Accolades

• All good

Tracklisting

• Track lengths are different to the ones listed at bandcamp, discogs and allmusic so maybe it's good to use one version (or the liner notes) and reference it.

External links

• Could add discogs or official website as per Wikipedia:WikiProject_Albums/Album_article_style_advice#External_links

Fair use

• Image and samples seem to be fine

Hold

I'm putting the article on hold for 7 days to see if CelestialWeevil or others want to address these issues outlined above.

Thank you very much, Mujinga. I'm going to make your changes ASAP. School's kind of crazy right now, so sorry for the delay. CelestialWeevil ^(talk) 23:28, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Hiya CelestialWeevil it's been a week now so I think I'll propose that I will wait until Monday to see if you are able to work on the article otherwise I will fail it. If you don't have the time right now it's not a massive problem, I will most likely be able to take up the review again in the next few months and perhaps that is the better option, since there's no point making this a stressful process. Mujinga (talk) 18:10, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

OK for now the article has failed its good article nomination but I would hope if the suggestions above are worked through by CelestialWeevil or someone else it will pass as a good article. I'd be happy to take on the review again, just ping me. Cheers, Mujinga (talk) 21:59, 17 September 2019 (UTC)