Talk:Pundarikakshan Perumal Temple/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Eric Corbett (talk · contribs) 23:54, 19 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm immediately concerned that this article about a building tells me pretty much nothing about the building. What are its dimensions, its layout, what's it made of? To meet GA criterion 1a this article also needs to be properly copyedited. A few examples:

"The 18 steps leading to the temple is believed to represent the 18 chapters of Bhagawat Gita".
"... the 108 Vishnu temples that are reverred in the Vaishnava canon".
"The sage asked the king to perform an ablution with milk on the hole." How do you put milk on a hole?
"As requested, the king brought 3700 Vaishnavites from the North and built the temple." Why is "North" capitalised?
"While doing so, one of the Vaishnavites died and the king was highly worried." Were the two events synchronous, or did the king become highly worried because of the death of one of the Vaishnavites? How do you become "highly worried" in any case? Something like "very concerned" would be more idiomatic.
"Pundarikakshan temple is believed to be built by the Pallavas ..." Should be "believed to have been built".

Done - i have corrected the portions. I will also effect further changes.

The temple

The Manual of Style says that section headings ought not to begin with "The".
"Narasimha is shown holding the demon with the legs of two in interlocked position. The other panel shows Narsimha tearing the insides of the demon thrown in his legs. I have no idea what that means.
"It is designed such that a person entering through one of the four enclosures cannot be seen from the other three. Why is the temple tank designed like that? What's a temple tank anyway?

Done - i have corrected the portions.

The dimension and history are very difficult to obtain as there are no official sources/website. The details are not provided in all the sources i have used in the article. I will try to get some more info in this angle.Ssriram mt (talk) 01:59, 20 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Added some metrics from available sources.Ssriram mt (talk) 00:58, 21 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Festivals and religious practises

What flavour of English spelling is the article using? British or American?
" The worship is held amidst music with nagaswaram (pipe instrument) and tavil (percussion instrument), religious instructions in the Vedas (sacred text) recited by priests and prostration by worshipers in front of the temple mast. Doesn't really make sense. Consider "The worship is held amidst ... prostration by worshipers in front of the temple mast." Need to check the spelling there too. What's a temple mast anyway? Eric Corbett 01:34, 21 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The article uses British English - i have executed a quick spell check and found no changes. Linked temple mast and rephrased the sentence.Ssriram mt (talk) 02:32, 21 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

The article is titled Pundarikakshan Perumal Temple, yet the lead starts "Pundarikakshan Temple ...". Why is that?
"The temple is believed to be of significant antiquity and is believed to be initiated by the Pallavas of the late 8th century AD". Tense is wrong.
"... with later contributions from Medieval Cholas, Later Pandyas, Vijayanagar kings and Madurai Nayaks. What's a "Later Pandya"?
"The temple has three inscriptions in the two rock-cut caves". As we haven't yet been told of any rock-cut caves this ought to be rephrased as "its two rock-cut caves".
"... two of them dating back to the period of Nandivarman". When was that?
"The temple is enshrined within a granite wall and the complex contains all the shrines and six of the seven water bodies associated with it. Associated with what? The temple? What does "associated with" mean in this context? What does "enshrined within" mean? Surrounded by?
"The rajagopuram (the gateway tower) is left unfinished." The tense is wrong.
"Pundarikakshan is believed to have appeared for Garuda (the sacred eagle bird of Vishnu), king Sibi Chakravarthy ...". Why is "king" not capitalised?
"It is counted as the fourth among the 108 divyadesam dedicated to Vishnu". Why "counted as the fourth", rather just the fourth? What's the significance of it being the fourth, as opposed to the third or fifth?

removed it - doesn't have any significance, but mere order.

"The Vijayanagar and Nayak kings contributed to the paintings in the walls of the shrine". Are the paintings in the walls or on the walls? What does "contributed to" mean in this context?

DoneSsriram mt (talk) 22:30, 21 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I still don't understand the significance of "fourth among the 108 divyadesam dedicated to Vishnu". Is divyadesam correct? The linked article has Divya Desams. Eric Corbett 12:31, 22 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"... a village in the outskirts of the Tiruchirapalli in the South Indian state of Tamil Nadu". Should that be Tiruchirappalli? Why the Tiruchirapalli?

oops - changed.Ssriram mt (talk) 12:00, 22 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Outside the second precinct ...". There's no context for this. How many precincts are there?
"The temple is believed to have been initiated by the Pallavas of the late 8th century AD". How do you "initiate" a temple"?
"The Vijayanagar and Nayak kings initiated the paintings on the walls of the shrine". Again, "initiated" can't be the right word here. "Commissioned"?

Done - i have reworded these items.Ssriram mt (talk) 01:06, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"... a practice followed across different centuries" Not sure what that means. A practice followed over many centuries?
"The temple is surrounded by a granite wall enclosing all the shrines". How many shrines are there?
"The Vijayanagar and Nayak kings commissioned paintings on the walls of the shrine". As there's apparently more than one shrine, which one are we talking about?

Done - I have included the changes. I will be out for three days and will address further comments by Monday end of day EST.Ssriram mt (talk) 12:22, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Is it correct that the temple is called Thiruvellarai, but the village it's located in is called Tiruvellarai? Can you clear up the significance of "fourth among the 108 divyadesam dedicated to Vishnu", and whether divyadesam is the correct term? Eric Corbett 17:43, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have added the phonetic part in footnotes and also streamlined the mention of the word Divyadesam. Divyadesam also has different transliterated versions like other Tamil words.

The article needs to be consistent though, which it's currently not. Eric Corbett 12:31, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Effected same spelling across the article.

Legend

"... when a white boar crossed him". Does that mean when a white boar crossed his path?

yes

"Vishnu appeared for both Shiva and Brahma, adhering to their prayer." Should that "appeared to"? What does "adhering to their prayer mean"? Only one prayer?
modified
Still not fixed though. Eric Corbett 12:29, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

oops - modified

"While doing so, one of the Vaishnavites was killed in transit and the king was concerned by the accident." The chronology doesn't work here, as the previous sentence ended "and built the temple". So "while doing so" appears to be referring to the building of the temple, which makes nonsense of "in transit".

rephrased

"The Hindu god Shiva in Neelivaneswarar Temple is believed to have worshipped Pundarikakshan at the temple to absolve him of his sin in holding Brahma's cut head" I can't really make sense of that sentence. What has Neelivaneswarar Temple got to do with it?

rephrased

History

"The temple came in full shape presumably during the time of Dantivarman." What does "came in full shape mean"?

rephrased

Most of this section seems to have very little to do with history, and seems better suited to the architecture section.

I have rearranged the contents.

Architecture

"Swastik tank, with stepped entrances in all four sides, was built during 800 AD". Should that be swastika?

yes - seems you have already corrected.

"The walls around the temple ...". How high are the walls? How thick? What are they made of? Are they rectangular? Square? Circular?

rectangular. The dimension metrics could not be obtained from any of the sources.

"... in the most notable of which he is depicted as a pot dancer". What's a pot dancer?

modified.

Festivals and religious practices

"Subsequently, the festive idols are taken to the launch pad of the chariot." A launch pad is what you launch rockets from.

redundant, removed.

Update

I've found this to be quite a difficult review, and I don't doubt the nominator has as well, but on reading through the article again this evening I think it's getting close to meeting the GA criteria. I do though have one reservation about the positioning of the Legend section, which I think would fit more naturally between the Architecture and Religious significance sections. Eric Corbett 01:53, 11 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

DoneSsriram mt (talk) 02:12, 11 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This may be a Tamil thing, I don't know, but is, for instance, the surname of T, Padmaja really T? There are many other similar instances as well, such as V.K., Subramanian. Eric Corbett 03:17, 11 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The first name, last name convention is highly convoluted in Tamil culture. Most have their last name (which is not expanded and merely initials) as their surname. For Padmaja and also for others, this is the case.Ssriram mt (talk) 12:01, 11 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I suspected something like that. I'll have one final read through the article later and then hopefully we can put this review to bed. Eric Corbett 13:57, 11 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]