Talk:Puerto Rico Highway 1

Article issues

1. No references.
2. The See also section should be removed completely. All of those should be linked elsewhere in the article. If any are not, the portal box needs to be moved to this section
3. The junction list is nowhere near MOS:RJL standards. Bulleted lists like that should only be used to summarize the detailed tables on "state-detail" articles of interstate highways (either Interstate Highways or US Highways) in the national-detail article.
4. The infobox should have a length and dates added. One of the junctions needs to be removed (10 is the maximum number under USRD standards). Remove the PRI and PRI-2-1 shields. They're not signed. Those shields should only be used in an infobox on an article for PRI-1 or PRI-2 itself.
5. The "Signing" section information should be incorporated into the History (shifting PRI-1 to PR-22) or Route description (change in signed direction) sections.

I hope this helps. The substandard nature of the RJL is enough to downgrade this article to Stub-Class for USRD. Imzadi 1979 → 04:46, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Duplicity

Unless I'm mistaken, there is a duplicity between Puerto Rico Highway 1 and Carretera Central (Puerto Rico). Both roads are the same. Thief12 (talk) 19:09, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

• You meant "duplication", not "duplicity" (which means lying), right? I respond in merger proposal section, below, about how they are not duplicates, IMO. :) doncram 04:36, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Merger proposal

I propose that Carretera Central (Puerto Rico) be merged into Puerto Rico Highway 1, since both articles cover the same topic. Carretera Central was an antique, or perhaps informal, name assigned to PR-1, which can be verified here and here. Thief12 (talk) 15:51, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi, thank you for notifying me of this discussion. The Carretera Central article should stay separate, because it is the article covering the original historic highway. PR-1 is not the same; the PR-1 article is incorrectmisleading in its "History" section, which may be understood as implying the two follow the same route. In modern highway numbering, PR-14 goes along the original Carretara Central route from Ponce to Cayey (going through Aibonito). PR-1 follows a different route from Ponce to Cayey (more than 70 kilometers, going through Salinas). Thereafter from Cayey to San Juan the PR-1 may pretty much follow the Carretera Central route. (This was clarified by editor Polaron several years ago.) It would not make sense to merge all three articles, either. I believe it is best to keep a separate article on the historic highway. As, for example, we keep the historic Lincoln Highway separate from articles on Interstate 80 and other modern numbered routes that go roughly the same course. Note also that the alignment of PR-1 and the Carretera are not exact the same even where they roughly run together. For example, between Cayey and Cidra the Carretera crossed the historic Arenas Bridge which survives, but that bridge is adjacent to the current bridge of the PR-735, which is a detour off the PR-1 (as I recall can be seen in satellite photos--try Google Maps view from geolocation in the Arenas Bridge article). I expect there may be other divergences, too. The merger proposal is a good suggestion based on what the Pr-1 article says currently, which I may try next to revise. The two Spanish-language sources are probably good to use to add to one or both articles, but I am not sure what they say exactly. Perhaps they agree that PR-1 is the same as the Carretera Central for part of their routes? --doncram 02:48, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

That's good information, but maybe I'm not understanding correctly. Is the Carretera Central marked in Google Maps? Why did we go from PR-1 to PR-14? As I understand it, they're different roads, even though they merge at one point. I know because PR-14 starts in Ponce and I'm from Ponce. I've taken that road several times. PR-1 is an entirely different road, up until the point where PR-14 merges into it in Caguas, if I'm not mistaken (I just verified this in Google Maps). As for the Carretera Central and PR-1, as I understand it, they are the same road. Maybe I'm mistaken, which is why I'm starting the discussion, but let's see how everything we works out from here on. Thanks for responding! Thief12 (talk) 12:14, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

i agree PR-1 is different from PR-14 up to Cayey. Page 9 of the Bridges in PR source, the first reference in the Carretea Central article states it ran through Juana Diaz, Coamo, and Aibonito, which can be seen on google maps as the route of PR-14, not PR-1. And the arenas Bridge was on the Carretera Central and is located on PR-735, not PR-1. Are there reliable sources specifically stating something different? The detail of the main reference is clear and convincing, and will outweigh casual but uninformed sources that might imply the PR-1 follows the Carretera Central route everywhere, when really it follows the same route only partway. doncram 14:59, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

One of the webpages I linked to above has two PDF books/essays about the Carretera Central, but I haven't read them. I kinda like the subject, so I'm gonna see what I can get out of them. Thanks for the feedback! Thief12 (talk) 19:11, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

I'm glad you're interested, and I hope you will develop the Carretera Central article! I can't seem to access the PDFs you mention, but both the sources do agree about route being through Aibonito, etc. At this point the merger tags can be removed, right? Have fun expanding upon the stub there now. doncram 00:28, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

I will try to keep expanding the article. And yes, both sources do mention that Carretera Central passes through Aibonito, but so does PR-1 according to Google Maps, although briefly (for two small portions as it winds down from Salinas to Cayey). One of the websites I listed does trace a different route than the one PR-1 follows, but I'm reading the official books it links to right now so I will probably make the necessary changes and remove the merger tags, if necessary, within a day or two. Thanks! Thief12 (talk) 11:35, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Thief12, I would tend to agree with doncram, the two roads --while possibly overlap in some segments (most notably from Cayey to San Juan)-- are not the same. For example, the section of modern day PR-14 goes from Ponce and immediately heads due east-northeast to Juana Diaz, then Coamo, etc. This road, PR-14, is unequivocally part of the historic Carretera Central and this can be seen as it still contains several of the old Casa de los Camineros along its route. However, the modern-day PR-1 goes from Ponce and immediately heads due east to Santa Isabel, then Salinas, etc.

At least one author (https://books.google.com/books?id=6WUzAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA326) states that "La carretera No. 1, que conduce de San Juan a Ponce, llamada Carretera Central y también Carretera Militar..." ("Road #1, which leads from San Juan to Ponce, called Carretera Central and also Carretera Militar..") but I think that this information is correct only for some segments of Carretera Central, in particular from San Juan heading south. While their terminii may be the same, or approximately the same, their route definitely are not. As such, and in the interest of not perpetuating what might be a myth, I would suggest the two articles stay separate and are treated as two entirely different routes.

I will add that, with PR Dept of Transportation / Autoridad de Carreteras constantly routing and re-routing roads, and particularly road segments, {complicated by their signing, re-signing, inter-signing and temp-signing of some roads at will (see, for example their mess with PR-10 and PR-123) }, to attend to the transportation needs pressing at the moment during each historical epoch (as the population increased and as local migratory pattern changed) some of the information of the actual Carretera Central may, in fact, have been lost to history and the creation of an accurate map may in fact prove to be rather difficult if not impossible. Mercy11 (talk) 19:44, 24 May 2016 (UTC)