Talk:Proto-Mayan language

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working on a soundrules table

Continuing discussion started on Talk:Mayan languages. Here, i've done 5 lines to give an idea of what I mean. Later if Madman makes his spiffy color-coded language geneology tree, we could use those colors by column instead of red (and of course include that image over in this article. --Homunq 22:18, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have to say, I like my version better. Particularly for the *ŋ line, it gives the information in a way that yours doesn't. Also by showing the preserved as well as the changed sounds, it could help a non-linguist start to understand what the deal is with sound shifts. If you don't give me a counterargument, I will (eventually) put mine in (though I agree with you that "K'iche'an" was a mistake). Good job, though.--Homunq 05:59, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You may be right it does look nice. The thing that worries me is that sometimes we will have to be very careful in order not to convey false information - because the rules in the sources that I am woring from only mentioned shared innovations for groups, this means that when one group shares a change that doesn't necesarrily leave the other languages unchanged, they may hve their own changes that aren't mentioned in my data. Also in your form of the table I think it would be better to show actual cognate words instead of just the phonemes. But I currently doen't have a cognate list for mayan that includes wastek - so i'll have to track down wastek cognates from other sources.Maunus 09:12, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Overview of soundrules from Proto-Mayan to modern Mayan language groups
Proto-Mayan	Huastecan	Yukatekan	Ch'olan	Q'anjobalan	Mamean	K'iche'an
w	b	w	w	w	w	w
ho/hu	wo,wu	ho/hu	ho/hu	ho/hu	ho/hu	ho/hu
*ŋ	h	n	n	n	x	x
q,q'	k,k'	k,k'	k,k'	k,k'	q,q'	q,q'
*-h	-h	-h	-h	-h	-h	-j Kaqchikel, Tz'utjil only

Overview of soundrules from Proto-Mayan to modern Mayan language groups
e: > i, o: > u raising of long mid vowels	Ch'olan
*a: > ɨ	Ch'olan, Yucatecan
*-t > -tʃ	Yucatecan
*ŋ > x	Quichean-Mamean
CVʔVC > CVʔC shortening of syllables with medial glottal stop	Quichean-Mamean
*r > t	Mamean
*r > j	Mamean
*t > tʃ	Mamean
*tʃ > tʂ	Mamean
*-ɓ > -ʔ/VCV_# In polysyllabic forms final implosive b became a glottal stop	Kaqchikel, Tz'utjil

I don't know how to use the talk page properly, but I have some concerns about the main page that I want to voice without changing it prematurely. The implosive is listed as an ejective, which it is not. This is a minor issue and can be fixed by simply redoing the table. The assertion that a colonial Huastecan spelling of <cuyx> does not equal [kʷiʃ] seems pretty shaky. Spanish orthography only allows two methods of expressing a [kʷi] syllable: <cui> or <cuy>. Perhaps the assumption is that <-uy> is to be pronounced as in Spanish <muy>, but this doesn't seem like a sure thing; I don't know of any Spanish words that allow a <uy> to come before a coda consonant. This issue should be addressed and backed up with solid sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.231.35.75 (talk) 19:36, 16 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

History

This article should have have at least one additional section which would explain the historical context of the Proto-Mayan language: i.e. when it is thought to have been spoken, its urheimat, features of its vocabulary with respect to the cultural, geographical and temporal context, and its historical relevance. — 129.21.145.181 (talk) 13:51, 26 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

use in music

(in reconstructed form, that is) I recall seeing an interview with a K'iche' musician who used p-Maya-influenced lyrics. Unfortunately I don't know how to find this interview again...would have been one of https://proweb.myersinfosys.com/fnx/atoz Arlo James Barnes 03:01, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]