Talk:Proto-Karelian language

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Finland

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WP:FRINGE O'clock here?

As far as I can see, there ain't any attestations of this purported proto-language outside of various sources that simply WP:MAF Karelian language. Shirt58 (talk) 🦘 11:07, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Most references used are in Finnish. I translated the terms "muinaiskarjala" as proto-Karelian, but it could also be translated as "ancient Karelian" or "old Karelian". There are various reliable Finnish language sources which refer to its existence. The article references an article made by the Institute for the Languages of Finland itself, referring to the proto-Karelian language from which Karelian, Izhorian and Savonian developed: https://www.kotus.fi/nyt/kolumnit_artikkelit_ja_esitelmat/artikkelit/karjala_kieli_murre_ja_paikka The direct words read thus "Muinaiskarjalan toisena jatkajana on usein pidetty inkeroisten eli inkerikkojen, Inkerinmaan kreikkalaiskatolisten alkuperäisasukkaiden kieltä. Aunuksenkannaksella eläneiden vepsäläisten muinaisvepsän ja muinaiskarjalan sulautumisesta ovat syntyneet aunukselaismurteet ja lyydiläismurteet. Karjalankannaksen länsiosat ovat taas luultavasti saaneet ensimmäiset pysyvät asukkaansa inkeroisalueelta" Literal translation: "The second successor of Old/Ancient/Proto-Karelian is often considered to be the language of the Ingrians or Izhorians, the original Greek Catholic inhabitants of Ingria. The Olonets and Ludic dialects have arisen from the merging of Old Vepsian and Old Karelian, spoken by the Vepsians who lived on the Olonets Isthmus. The western parts of the Karelian Isthmus likely received their first permanent inhabitants from the Ingrian region." There is no requirement for sources to be in English, and one could hardly call sources such as the Institute for the Languages of Finland to be fringe. Additionally, I was able to find non-Finnish references to proto-Karelian through a very short search through Google Books. --ValtteriLahti12 (talk) 13:33, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]