Talk:Protesilaus

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Comments

why is Protesilaus in the greek murder victims catagory? he was killed in war and not a historical figure

Things removed from old version

These lines I removed because I wasn't able to find a source:

"After Odysseus tossed his shield ashore and jumped onto it, Protesilaus, with knowledge of the prophecy, fulfilled this after killing several Trojans."

Odysseus jumping on the sheild sounds familiar, but I couldn't find it anywhere.

"Alternatively, Hector, or according to other accounts Euphorbus, Aeneas, or Cycnus killed Protesilaus."

I found plenty of references for Hector, one for Cycnus, but none for the other two.

"Ovid XII, 68, also referred to in Catullus poem 68(b)"

The Ovid line just repeats what several other sources say, that it was Hector who killed him. The Catullus looks like it actually had some interesting stuff on his wife that could possibly be worked in. -Ravenous 21:33, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

For Aeneas killing Protesilaus that info was from "Gods and Heroes" by Gustav Schwab, not quite an ancient source, and I'm not to sure where he got his source from.

Never seen the etymology suggested here before. Usual etymologies are "first of the host" and "first to jump." See. L. Fulkerson, "(Un)sympathetic magic. A Study of Heroides 13.' AJPh 123, 2002, 61-87, at 72–73 with note 43.

"biography"

The synthesized "biography" is resistant to interpretation. Walter Burkert, Homo Necans (1974) 1983, §IV.6 "Protesilaos" provides a less hermetically-sealed overview, which would provide a more flexible outline. Is this figure so well-known that we employ a Latinized spelling? I'm the last one to insist on "correct" Hellenizations, but in this case isn't Protesilaos better? --Wetman 20:18, 16 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The stated etymology is incorrect

Not least of all because it makes no sense. Protesilaus didn't plunder Troy. That happened 10 years later. And while i'm not certain of this, I don't think protos + sulesis = Protesilaos is linguistically viable. This etymology is, however, perhaps hinted at by Herodotus, who tells us that the tomb of Protesilaus was the first Greek "land" to be plundered by the Persians when they marched into Europe. Such wordplay is not uncommon in his work. The name most likely derives from protos + hallesthai, meaning "the first to leap" -- because Protesilaus was the first Greek to leap out of his ship and onto the beach. Thetis knew it was fated that the first Greek to do so would die, so she counselled Achilles to go out second. There is also a minority view that the name comes from halasthai, in that Protesilaus was the first to propitiate (or gain the favor of) the gods by sacrificing his own life. Ifnkovhg (talk) 09:29, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. I excised a sentence from my original post, as it was incorrect. Sorry. Ifnkovhg (talk) 09:33, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

None of the proposed etymologies can be right because they simply don't make any morphophonological sense (assuming that they even make semantic sense). Names such as Ἀγ-ησί-λαος, Ἀρκ-εσί-λαος, Πρωτ-εσί-λαος have a very peculiar form. If the morphemic boundaries I've just cited (a hypothesis that is proposed by the Greek encyclopedia Πάπυρος-Larousse-Britannica) are correct, things get more simplified, but still the semantics are dubious. So, all we can do is leave the Protesilaus' etymology as is right now: non-existent. Omnipedian (talk) 15:10, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wilusa and Troy separate?

Elaeus sounds to me like Wilusa or Iliados. Maybe Schliemenn's Troy on the mainland was not Wilusa but a different place? Why was Protesilaus so keen to leap ashore at his birthplace to attack and plunder it? Rather, he was jumping ashore at Troy, not Wilusa/Elaeus (his birthplace). If this is true, it would imply that there is a magnificent ancient city to be excavated on the peninsula at Elaeus, the true Wilusa. But of course I am an amateur and have no real evidence for this, except this name-based surmise. Lgh (talk) 23:26, 4 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

the present(2020), separate, article of Wikipedia about Wilusa notes that it is more possible that it was the Byzantine "Iluza" (Ἴλουζα), around Beycesultan, near today's Civril. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.255.61.188 (talk) 07:38, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]