Talk:Prostate/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Dunkleosteus77 (talk · contribs) 17:06, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for taking up this review Dunkleosteus77, I appreciate your thoroughness. I'm about to enter a period where I may not be able to address many of these for a week or so, however I will have time the week after. --Tom (LT) (talk) 22:50, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

I think I've responded to all your remarks below Dunkleosteus77, and appreciate your patience. Just after nominating this I was notified about a large, disruptive and ongoing change to my schedule that meant I had to put aside my plans for more responsive editing :(. --Tom (LT) (talk) 04:08, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Dunkleosteus77

Addressed

"Because of the variation in descriptions and definitions of lobes, zones form the predominant division" seems to contradict "The 'lobe' classification is more often used in anatomy"  Done fixed up somewhat. Let me know what you think.--Tom (LT) (talk) 01:05, 28 July 2020 (UTC) In the lead it'd be good to note that division by zone is more common in anatomy and by lobe in pathology   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:06, 19 July 2020 (UTC)  Done fixed up somewhat. Let me know what you think.--Tom (LT) (talk) 01:05, 28 July 2020 (UTC) "The prostate is incompletely divided into five lobes" why incompletely? What's missing?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:06, 19 July 2020 (UTC)  Done Because they don't have clear boudaries. I've reworded things; let me know what you think. --Tom (LT) (talk) 01:05, 28 July 2020 (UTC) Do you think instead of saying "sub-capsular portion" you say "interior portion"? Or maybe "sub-capsular (interior) portion"?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:06, 19 July 2020 (UTC)  simplified --Tom (LT) (talk) 00:02, 20 July 2020 (UTC) posterior, vas deferens, external iliac lymph nodes, and obturator aren't wikilinked on first mention   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:06, 19 July 2020 (UTC)  Partly done except for 'posterior', where it is used first in a table. --Tom (LT) (talk) 00:29, 28 July 2020 (UTC) Last 2 sentences of Gene and protein expression missing a ref   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:06, 19 July 2020 (UTC)  Done --Tom (LT) (talk) 03:46, 8 August 2020 (UTC) ejaculatory ducts is wikilinked 3 times   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:06, 19 July 2020 (UTC)  Partly done removed one link. The other two links are, I think, useful to remain linked. --Tom (LT) (talk) 00:29, 28 July 2020 (UTC) wikilink lumbar   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:06, 19 July 2020 (UTC)  Done --Tom (LT) (talk) 00:02, 20 July 2020 (UTC) citation needed tag on an image   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:06, 19 July 2020 (UTC)  Done removed. --Tom (LT) (talk) 00:29, 28 July 2020 (UTC) The caption for the prostate exam image should have a ref   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  13:50, 3 August 2020 (UTC) The caption reflects what is written in the text. --Tom (LT) (talk) 03:46, 8 August 2020 (UTC) What are the effects of removing the prostate?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:06, 19 July 2020 (UTC)  Done have added a subsection. --Tom (LT) (talk) 03:46, 8 August 2020 (UTC) "John E. McNeal first proposed the idea of 'zones' in 1968. McNeal found that the relatively homogeneous cut surface of an adult prostate in no way resembled 'lobes' and thus led to the description of 'zones' " these are the same statement. Also you should specify that Home divided it into lobes   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:06, 19 July 2020 (UTC)  Done --Tom (LT) (talk) 04:06, 8 August 2020 (UTC) J. Adams → John Adams   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:06, 19 July 2020 (UTC)  Done. I can't see a corresponding article for him, though, so this will have to remain a redlink. --Tom (LT) (talk) 01:05, 28 July 2020 (UTC) Why is x-ray in brackets?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:06, 19 July 2020 (UTC)  Done unknown. --Tom (LT) (talk) 00:02, 20 July 2020 (UTC) "Brachytherapy with implanted seeds" what kind of seeds?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:06, 19 July 2020 (UTC)  Not done Not sure where you are referring here. The text reads: "insertion of small radioactive particles". I'm not sure of what material; the fact they are small and radioactive is the conventional description. --Tom (LT) (talk) 01:05, 28 July 2020 (UTC) "Brachytherapy with implanted seeds (for prostate cancer) was first described in 1983." What are the seeds? Are these the radium implants?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  13:50, 3 August 2020 (UTC)  Done Great question. I changed my search strategy and now have a proper answer for this: The types of seed also vary and may include Iodine-125, Palladium-103, and echnogenic Iodine-125 seeds --Tom (LT) (talk) 03:46, 8 August 2020 (UTC) "excepting xenarthrans, martens, badgers, and otters" if you're gonna use xenarthrans instead of sloths, anteaters, and armadillos, you might as well use mustelids instead of martens, badgers, and otters   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:06, 19 July 2020 (UTC) @Dunkleosteus77 I know you are reviewer here, but would you be able to make a change that you think is reasonable here. I just don't understand enough about zoology to feel confident I will do this part accurately. --Tom (LT) (talk) 04:01, 8 August 2020 (UTC) Much appreciated What is disseminate?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:06, 19 July 2020 (UTC)  Done --Tom (LT) (talk) 04:01, 8 August 2020 (UTC) Why is In invertebrates a different section from In mammals if the former is only 1 sentence? Do other classes of animals have prostates?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:06, 19 July 2020 (UTC) I am open to removing this heading, but have included it for ease of reference and to make clear the vertebrate part just refers to vertebrates. --Tom (LT) (talk) 04:01, 8 August 2020 (UTC) "...was a mistranslation of the term for the Ancient Greek word used to describe the seminal glands, parastatai" this seems to imply that the ancient Greeks identified the seminal glands but not the prostate. Also, what are the seminal glands?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:06, 19 July 2020 (UTC)  Done seminal vesicles. The Ancient Greeks NAMED the seminal vesicles but presumably saw the bulbous-in-shape prostate but didn't name it (maybe they thought it was a part of something else). --Tom (LT) (talk) 00:02, 20 July 2020 (UTC) Look over this and see if you missed anything. The current History section seems to be more about the history of prostate cancer than the prostate itself (which isn't necessarily a problem if the history of the prostate is indeed quite short)   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  02:32, 20 July 2020 (UTC) Thankfully, that article aligns well with what was already included. Thanks for providing it. --Tom (LT) (talk) 00:29, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Arbitrary break

• "Removal of the gland was first described in 1851, by Samuel David Gross" why did Gross want to remove the gland?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:06, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
  •  Not done haven't been able to find this information; he was an American surgeon but beyond that I'm not sure. It would be interesting to clarify though. Do you have any ideas?--Tom (LT) (talk) 01:05, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Actual reading Gross' work, he doesn't describe how to remove it, he just describes the actual organ. He says "The object of this work is to present, in a systematic and connected form, a full and comprehensive account of the diseases and injuries of the urinary gland, the prostate, and the urethra... Whilst every other organ of the body has had its expounder and monographist, it is a singular fact that no systematic treatise has yet appeared..."   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  01:21, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

I have accessed the full source (URL linked in text) and he does indeed state The idea of extirpating the entire gland is, indeed, to absurd to be seriously entertained... Excision of the middle lobe would be far less objectionable. Righteo. Back to the resource exchange (Wikipedia:WikiProject_Resource_Exchange/Resource_Request#More_prostate). --Tom (LT) (talk) 03:46, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

 Partly done I just can't find any other references to the first prostatectomy, so I have clarified this statement as best I can. --Tom (LT) (talk) 23:18, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

• "A prostate gland occurs in some invertebrate species, such as gastropods (slugs and snails)" this implies that it occurs in other invertebrate groups. What are they? Do they occur in reptiles, birds, or fish?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  21:41, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
  •  Done removed. Lots of sources state clearly it's present only in mammals. --Tom (LT) (talk) 02:36, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
• "In many rodents and bats, the prostatic fluid contains a coagulant. This mixes with and coagulates semen during copulation to form a mating plug that temporarily prevents further copulation." does this occur in other mammals that produce a mating plug (including many primates)? That is, is coagulative prostatic fluid a requirement for creating a mating plug?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  21:41, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
  •  Done removed. One source did not state this and one stated it from 1965. I can't locate a source that states clearly that mating plugs relate to prostatic scretions (and indeed they seem to be present in species without prostates). --Tom (LT) (talk) 02:36, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
• Since Skene's gland occurs in both humans and rodents, you should check if it occurs in other primates or rabbits (that is, if it occurs in all euarchontoglires)   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  14:06, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
  •  Done thanks for mentioning this. Skene's gland is a controversial area because, in my understanding, there is still some disagreement about its definition, which complicates whether authors do or don't agree that it's in certain species. I've added a bit and mentioned this controversy. --Tom (LT) (talk) 02:36, 24 August 2020 (UTC)