Talk:Project Sign

Poor references

Not one of references 2 to 8, the only ones I can check online, actually meets the criteria of a Reliable source. The statements they support will be removed unless better sourcing is provided. Verbal chat 13:51, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Well it has been nearly a year, should they be removed? SpaceCDT (talk) 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC) These references do not meet Reliable source. I cannot find any indication that the "Michael Swords" book is even an actual published book. I think that they should all be removed and the article changed accordingly. SpaceCDT (talk) 23:57, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Edward J. Ruppelt was a USAF Captain and the supervisor of the Air Force's Project Blue Book from 1951-1953. Read the Wiki article on him. I think it would be hard to argue that his 1956 book isn't a "reliable source", especially given that it's used as an historical document by even UFO skeptics (see, for example, Curtis Peebles and his 1994 book Watch the Skies! A Chronicle of the Flying Saucer Myth.) Certainly Michael D. Swords article can be argued to be an unreliable source (although he is a retired professor (professor emeritus) of natural sciences at Western Michigan University, is listed as such on the university website, and there is a Wiki article about him), but Ruppelt would, I think, certainly stand up to scrutiny as a "reliable source." I am wondering what would be a "better source" - and if this includes well-known UFO debunkers such as Robert Sheaffer or Philip Klass. If so, I think that would violate Wiki's requirements for neutrality. Just a thought.70.145.229.162 (talk) 16:46, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

The 15th edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica uses Ruppelt's book as a source for its UFO article. I would think that if Ruppelt's book is good enough for the Encyclopedia Britannica, then it's good enough for Wikipedia.

Another Poor Reference

The "Twining Memo" is controversial. Some suspect it is a hoax. The following website has a good overview of the objections to it: <http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_reich09a.htm>. The UFO Experience by J. Allen Hynek and Cpt. Edward J. Ruppelt's The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects both contain reputable insights and facts on this project. The stuff from Swords and the alleged Twining Memo should be expunged in favor of information from these sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robertjb78 (talk • contribs) 18:49, 12 June 2011 (UTC) Robertjb78 (talk) 18:52, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

I think it should be noted that the "Twining Memo" you're referring to is the one related to the highly controversial Majestic-12 papers, and not the memo he sent in 1947 regarding UFO sightings, which definitely existed and is referred to in numerous books by UFO researchers and skeptics. This memo is mentioned in the Wiki article and led to the creation of Project Sign in 1947. As for the MJ-12 stuff, I would say they have been pretty thoroughly debunked, including Twining's MJ-12 memos. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.145.229.162 (talk) 04:53, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

There is a problem with the altitude, A pilot should not black out at only 15,000 feet or be already unconscious, I check other references and it should be corrected to be 25,000 feet. I also believe that the 10,000 feet is a cross referenced mistake to another quoted reference by a ground observer, but not entirely sure. See original quote below, for 15,000 feet mistake only:

Upon reaching about 10,000 feet, Mantell's companions abandoned their pursuit due to a lack of high-altitude oxygen gear.[6] Mantell continued, however, and reportedly described the aerial artifact as "a metallic object ... it is of tremendous size." [8] Mantell is presumed to have blacked out from oxygen deprivation at about 15,000 feet, whereupon his airplane crashed and he died.

John w. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.245.52.241 (talk) 17:53, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Historically relevant topic, but needing updating

Whilst I do think this article needs some revision, the topic is of historical relevance. I will have a go at updating this article over the next month or two (rather heavily committed with work at the moment and I'll need to do a bit of digging for references etc., so will take me a little while...)

Any suggestions gratefully recieved!

Anthony Mugan (talk) 09:13, 10 January 2012 (UTC)Anthony Mugan

As I noted above, I strongly disagree that Edward J. Ruppelt's 1956 book The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects is not a reliable source. It certainly seems to meet all of Wiki's reliable source criteria. Another reliable source by a prominent UFO researcher (and credentialed scientist) is Dr. J. Allen Hynek's The UFO Experience. A good, reliable book by a UFO skeptic about Project Sign is Curtis Peebles' Watch the Skies! A Chronicle of the Flying Saucer Myth. Hope this helps! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.145.229.162 (talk) 05:01, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Please don't be too stringent

I would strongly encourage Wikipedia not to be too stringent on guidelines regarding this subject. All the earlier information on UFO's has been subject to systematic debunking, largely the effort of Project Blue Book, but also evident in Project Grudge. I don't think anyone should mind any information related to these topics as long as there is some attribution. Remember, we have no way of knowing what is really true here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GwydionRhys (talk • contribs) 18:57, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

WP:FT/N notice

I have started a discussion on this article at the fringe theories noticeboard. ThePlatypusofDoom (Talk) 11:50, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

"Estimate of the Situation" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Estimate of the Situation. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 22#Estimate of the Situation until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. —S Marshall T/C 22:02, 22 May 2020 (UTC)