Talk:Project Excelsior

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Project Excelsior article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find medical sources: Source guidelines · PubMed · Cochrane · DOAJ · Gale · OpenMD · ScienceDirect · Springer · Trip · Wiley · TWL

Military history: Aviation / Technology / North America / United States Start‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

Start

This article has been rated as Start-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion not met

Associated task forces:
/
	Military aviation task force
	Military science, technology, and theory task force
	North American military history task force
	United States military history task force

Aviation

This article is within the scope of the Aviation WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.AviationWikipedia:WikiProject AviationTemplate:WikiProject Aviationaviation articles

This article has not yet been checked against the criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar and style: not checked Supporting materials: not checked	To fill out this checklist, please add the following code to the template call: \| b1<!--Referencing and citation--> = <yes/no> \| b2<!--Coverage and accuracy --> = <yes/no> \| b3<!--Structure --> = <yes/no> \| b4<!--Grammar and style --> = <yes/no> \| b5<!--Supporting materials --> = <yes/no> assessing the article against each criterion.

Medicine Low‑importance

	Medicine portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Medicine, which recommends that medicine-related articles follow the Manual of Style for medicine-related articles and that biomedical information in any article use high-quality medical sources. Please visit the project page for details or ask questions at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine.MedicineWikipedia:WikiProject MedicineTemplate:WikiProject Medicinemedicine articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Spaceflight Low‑importance

	Spaceflight portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Spaceflight, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of spaceflight on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SpaceflightWikipedia:WikiProject SpaceflightTemplate:WikiProject Spaceflightspaceflight articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

United States: Military history Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Military history - U.S. military history task force.

Query on speed, moved from article page

Article says:

in later interviews, Kittinger put his top speed at 714 mph (1,149 km/h)

Query was:

was actual statement 620 knots? if so, state it and round appropriately in conversions

Quote from this interview with Joseph Kittinger:

At about 90,000 feet, I reached 714 mph. The altimeter on my wrist was unwinding very rapidly. But there was no sense of speed.

Gandalf61 13:53, 5 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Please refer to discussion tab of Joseph Kittinger, or http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=1114 and http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/aerodynamics/q0243.shtml for speed numbers.--Shimada22 (talk) 00:46, 28 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's about what I remember, Gandalf61, from reading Kittinger's book, The Long Lonely Leap in the 1960s. If correct, that means he broke the speed of sound during his jump, and Felix_Baumgartner is chasing a ghost with his planned jump in mid-year 2010, because it's already been done.—Quicksilver^{T @} 16:45, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What about...

What happened to the balloons? Wasn't someone recently trying to break this record? Rmhermen 18:22, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Flat spin?

The articles says a body in free-fall will go into a "flat spin". Is this a correct use of the term? In aerodynamics, a spin describes a very specific stable configuration where both wings are stalled and the aircraft is autorotating. Is this an accurate portrayal of what's going on in this situation? -- RoySmith (talk) 23:02, 2 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's describing a condition in which the falling human body is in a more-or-less horizontal attitude, spinning about its center of gravity in a horizontal plane.—Quicksilver^{T @} 16:45, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In any case, the link points to the aerodynamic definition of "spin", which of course does not reflect the effect that happens on high-altitude parachuting. Using the term "spin" instead of "flat spin" would certainly help towards a better understanding of the phenomena. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.220.19.114 (talk) 17:09, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Confusion over records

There seems to be some confusion over the records. Victor Prather and Malcolm Ross (balloonist) still hold the record for the highest balloon ascent (approx 113,000 feet), which is higher than Kissinger's ascent, but Kissinger still holds the record for the highest parachute deployment, as he opened his parachute at 17,000 feet, rather than the 10,000 feet for Prather and Ross. At least that is, I think, what is causing the confusion. Can someone check this and tidy up the Prather, Ross, Kissinger and Excelsior articles so they are consistent? Carcharoth 14:52, 13 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is a question but i belive he holds the record for highest SOLO balloon assent. is this correct? thank you to anyone who responds. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.195.131.189 (talk) 02:28, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

When you only say "world record", confusions are invited. The current standard aerospace world record repository is at FAI. National aerospace records are kept at each National Aero Club. Kittinger (I believe it is not about Kissinger)'s all FAI world records are listed here. He made FAI records only in ballooning distance. It helps if somebody can cite USAF records or parachuting association records, etc.--Shimada22 (talk) 00:57, 28 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently Ross and Prather still hold the record for the highest balloon flight at 113,740 feet (34.67 km). Nicholas Piantanida, while attempting to set a new skydiving jump record, is claimed to have reached 123,800 feet (37.73 km) on February 2, 1966. Piantanida was unable to disconnect his breathing apparatus from the gondola, so the ground crew jettisoned the balloon at the flight ceiling. In ballooning, as in mountain climbing, an orderly descent apparently counts for something. Piantanida's ascent did not set a flight altitude record because Piantanida descended without the balloon. Piantanida died not too long after a later flight in which his suit or gondola apparently suffered a catastrophic decompression at altitude.Catrachos (talk) 00:13, 8 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

His hand

Article should state what caused the severe pain in his hand exactly and what were the lasting effects, if any. Tempshill (talk) 03:16, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As I recall from reading Kittinger's book, The Long Lonely Leap, a long time ago, in the mid- to late 1960s, the pain was primarily caused by encroaching frostbite: It's damn cold in the stratosphere and the escaping air at the glove joint would have caused an additional chilling effect. I made an edit to that effect. I'd re-read the book for the sake of improving the article, but it's long out of print, although it may still be in some library collections. (The Long Lonely Leap, by Captain Joseph W. Kittinger, Jr., USAF, with Martin Caidin. E.P. Dutton & Co. Inc. New York 1961) Copies on the used book market are reportedly selling in the range of US$350-US$600. —Quicksilver^{T @} 16:23, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Height

112,000 feet doesn't necessarily mean that much (it's too big to really comprehend) - can the heights also be given in miles and kilometres? Neıl ☎ 19:32, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How good a vacuum?

I could find no mention in the article of just how low the air pressure was on these flights - the article on the Barometric formula has a table which gives a value for 32,000 meters of 868Pa, which is just under 0.86% of sea level pressure. The density, on the other hand, is a little more than 1% of that at sea level, because of the low temperature. So, from the physiological point of view, this was space - without a pressure suit, he would have survived as long at this altitude as he would have done in orbit. Plus the balloon is floating in unspeakably thin air. Just what size has the envelope expanded to at peak altitude?Moletrouser (talk) 09:38, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Some sources give the maximum balloon inflation at around 172 feet (52 meters) diameter for the earlier Project Man High flights. The Project Excelsior flights went to a higher altitude, so the maximum diameter might have been a bit larger, assuming the payload weight was the same. The balloons were designed for a maximum inflation diameter of 200 feet. —Quicksilver^{T @} 17:27, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Gondola

What happened to the platform after he made his jump? I assume, although the article does not say, it must have come down to earth otherwise how did retrieve the picture of the record-breaking jump? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.156.29.177 (talk) 13:04, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Accompanied in the balloon ?

So the feature photo today is of Kittinger jumping out of the balloon, taken by photographer called Wentzel. Was he accompanied in the balloon/capsule by Wentzel, or did Wentzel rig up for the photo to be taken automatically ?Eregli bob (talk) 14:10, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Unconscious and spin in 1st jump

Joseph Kittinger article says he was unconscious during 1st jump and went into fast spin (not clear which first) hence? 3rd jump deployed a small drougue chute after only 6,000 feet - hence rest of 3rd descent not strictly free fall. - Rod57 (talk) 01:51, 10 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

...(then Captain)?

Was he disrated???

46.115.94.215 (talk) 23:27, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Reason for pressurized suit???

The article currently states:

"As the gondola was unpressurized, Kittinger had to wear a full pressure suit during these tests, plus additional layers of clothing to protect him from the extreme cold at high altitude."

But regardless of whether the gondola was pressurized or not, he would still need the suit for the descent anyway, which would seem to be the real reason for the suit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Acm acm (talk • contribs) 22:28, 15 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The sentence made sense as they could have used a pressurized and insulated gondola. Kittinger would have locked on the helmet and gloves prior to releasing the air pressure and opening the hatch to exit. Kittinger would not have needed that much insulation as he would have been exposed to the elements for about five minutes (a minute inside the gondola and four minutes in free fall.) --Marc Kupper|talk 07:34, 21 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Kittinger still holds records?

The article says "Kittinger does, however, still hold the records for longest drogue fall and longest freefall." The freefall was for 85,300 feet from 102,800 feet to 17,500 feet. The drogue chute deployed at 96,000 feet meaning 78,500 feet of freefall with the drogue.

Oddly, the article does not mention Alan Eustace who:

Jumped from 135,889 feet
Free fall of 123,334 feet with some or all of that using a drogue.

According to this source says he jumped from 135,890 feet and that there was a 123,414 foot freefall using a drogue chute the entire way.

I've added Alan Eustace to the "See also" section. --Marc Kupper|talk 07:29, 21 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified (January 2018)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Project Excelsior. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100331012902/http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=562 to http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=562

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 02:14, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]