Talk:Progonos Sgouros

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Leo Sgouros, Albanian

Was Progonos related to Leo Sgouros? Was he Albanian, or from Arbanon? I will try to find Jirecek's data.--Zoupan 15:47, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's a quite common surname that happens to get confused with Sgouros (also common) when transliterated. Btw the source says They were presented by a man called Progonos Sgouros who came from Salonica together with an icon of the Virgin Perebleptos... i.e source misinterpretation.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 19:18, 29 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Albanian

@Umpire Empire: claims that "Albanian in Nicol source does not explicitly denote ethnic descent".The only thing I can say is that Sgouros wasn't born in Albania,but in the historic region of Arbanon,so Albanian isn't used as a demonym but referring to his ethnicity.Also read Wikipedia's rules before destroying Wikipedia.Rolandi+ (talk) 18:43, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You're misinterpreting the term "Albanian" in Nicol and conveniently ignoring other sources that only mention Progonos Sgouros's geographical origins. It's true that ethnic Albanians were present in the Balkans during the 13th and 14th centuries, but the fact that Progonos Sgouros came from Arbanon, initially the name of a region under Byzantine Greek political and cultural influences, doesn't mean that he was ethnically Albanian. If Progonos Sgouros were ethnically Albanian, then why doesn't Nicol use more specific terminology such as "ethnic Albanian", "native Albanian-speaker" or even "of Albanian stock"? The reason is that there are no biographical details in the primary sources that justify classifying Progonos Sgouros as an ethnic Albanian or even as a native Albanian-speaker (if there are, I'd like to see them). So in the absence of primary and secondary references that explicitly classify Progonos Sgouros as an "ethnic Albanian" or a "native Albanian-speaker", we as editors should simply refer to him as a Byzantine official from Arbanon per WP:NPOV. Umpire Empire (talk) 19:05, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Don't try playing games here.The source says he was Albanian and he wasn't born in Albania,but in Arbanon.If you don't know it means that when referring as Albanian it is in the ethnic sense.If you don't know you can ask other experienced editors.The source doesn't need to say "ethnic Albanian", "native Albanian-speaker" or even "of Albanian stock".There are two possibilities:1.you don't know anything about ethnicity or 2.you are here to play games.Rolandi+ (talk) 09:39, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You're the one playing games here by misinterpreting sources. If you bothered to read the other references in the article like Velmans who states that Progonos Sgouros came from Arbanon, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Umpire Empire (talk) 13:03, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Obstruction

Previously this article had been obstructed by a SPA who argued that because Progons ethnicity wasnt explicitly mentioned he can not possibly be albanian. He also missapropriated sources by saying the term Albanian was a regional appellation. If somebody with more experience and knoweledge on the matter is able to look at this article again that would be great. Atlonche (talk) 18:22, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]