Talk:Pro-Palestinian
 | This redirect was nominated at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion on 22 July 2011. The result of the discussion was retarget to Palestinian cause. |
| This redirect was nominated at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion on 26 August 2011. The result of the discussion was retarget to Palestinian cause. |
Extract from RFD discussion for future reference
[edit]
- Retarget to Palestinian cause. This title redirected there until that target was unilaterally reidrected to Israeli-Palestinian conflict in June, and then reverted a few hours later. A bot fixed the double-redirect before the revert, but this was apparently not spotted by the reverting user (I probably wouldn't have thought to look either). There is discussion at Talk:Palestinian cause about merging to the article about the conflict, and I suggest that if this RfD closes as retarget to Palestinian cause then a note be added to that discussion highlighting that the redirect should be pointed at the relevant section of the merged article, if a merge happens. Thryduulf (talk) 15:05, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Well... I initiated the RfD of "Pro-Palestinian" redirecting to "Israeli-Palestinian conflict", then it was relevantly suggested to point it to "Palestinian cause" instead, to which I agreed, yet that latter page was deleted (not merged) to point to "Israeli-Palestinian conflict"... So it's back to square one, and referring to the above, I really don't to which particular section the article could point to. I still don't see why "Pro-Palestinian" should point to "Israeli-Palestinian conflict", especially given that 1/ "Pro-israeli" doesn't point to it and 2/ it makes it unnecessarily difficult to search for "Pro-Palestinian" (which is a relevant search) with the redirect. Don't really know what should be done now though. Best, —Ireilly talk 09:10, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
- Hi, thanks for alerting us to this new problem. In truth neither this page nor "Palestinian cause" is sensibly redirected to "Israeli-Palestinian conflict" now that there is no relevant content there. I don't see merit in a redlink because no new article is going to use the exact title "Pro-Palestinian"; the Israeli equivalent is called Israel lobby for example. I'd be inclined to redirect both to Palestinian nationalism; not the same thing but probably sufficiently relevant. I will alert User:Thryduulf to this discussion because his input will be valuable, and he was the only other contributor at the RfD. Bridgeplayer (talk) 02:30, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
- Hmm, I hadn't thought of this scenario when making the recommendation you quote above. After looking around the articles we have in this area (which isn't one I'm terribly familiar with), I'm inclined to agree with Bridgeplayer that Palestinian nationalism is probably the best (or at least the least bad) target we have for both titles, which remain useful search terms. What I suggest as the most transparent way forward is to nominate both redirects for retargeting (in the same discussion) at RfD, linking to the previous RfD, the AfD and this discussion. It will also be wise to advertise the discussion well. To this end I'd suggest placing neutrally worded notices on the talk pages of all the participants at the AfD (noting that participation there is why they are getting the note), at talk:Palestinian nationalism, talk:Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the talk pages of any relevant wikiprojects. This way there should be no allegations of trying to hide anything or make an end-run around the consensus of the AfD (you aren't doing, but I've seen it alleged in similar circumstances previously) and it will hopefully bring more eyes to the discussion, one or more of whom may have a brilliant idea that none of us have thought of. Thryduulf (talk) 08:24, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks guys for your input. Thryduulf, when you get a minute, would you provide the wording for the notice? Then I'll paste it where you suggested. Best, —Ireilly talk 09:25, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
- Hmm, I hadn't thought of this scenario when making the recommendation you quote above. After looking around the articles we have in this area (which isn't one I'm terribly familiar with), I'm inclined to agree with Bridgeplayer that Palestinian nationalism is probably the best (or at least the least bad) target we have for both titles, which remain useful search terms. What I suggest as the most transparent way forward is to nominate both redirects for retargeting (in the same discussion) at RfD, linking to the previous RfD, the AfD and this discussion. It will also be wise to advertise the discussion well. To this end I'd suggest placing neutrally worded notices on the talk pages of all the participants at the AfD (noting that participation there is why they are getting the note), at talk:Palestinian nationalism, talk:Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the talk pages of any relevant wikiprojects. This way there should be no allegations of trying to hide anything or make an end-run around the consensus of the AfD (you aren't doing, but I've seen it alleged in similar circumstances previously) and it will hopefully bring more eyes to the discussion, one or more of whom may have a brilliant idea that none of us have thought of. Thryduulf (talk) 08:24, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
- Hi, thanks for alerting us to this new problem. In truth neither this page nor "Palestinian cause" is sensibly redirected to "Israeli-Palestinian conflict" now that there is no relevant content there. I don't see merit in a redlink because no new article is going to use the exact title "Pro-Palestinian"; the Israeli equivalent is called Israel lobby for example. I'd be inclined to redirect both to Palestinian nationalism; not the same thing but probably sufficiently relevant. I will alert User:Thryduulf to this discussion because his input will be valuable, and he was the only other contributor at the RfD. Bridgeplayer (talk) 02:30, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
How about something like below:
- At Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2011 July 22#Pro-Palestinian consensus was reached to retarget the "Pro-Palestinian" redirect from "Israeli-Palestinian conflict" to "Palestinian cause". On 14 August 2011 Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Palestinian cause was closed as "Redirect to Israeli-Palestinian conflict", inadvertently reversing the consensus reached at the RfD regarding the "Pro-Palestinian" redirect (the redirect was not mentioned at all during the discussion).
- Discussion subsequently at Talk:Pro-Palestinian#Extract from RFD discussion for future reference it has been suggested that both redirects ("Pro-Palestinian" and "Palestinian cause") would be better targeted at Palestinian nationalism. At the same location it was agreed that most appropriate way forward would be a widely-advertised RfD about the proposed retargetting, with notifications to relevant WikiProjects and all participants in the AfD and RfD. Accordingly, the discussion has been opened and your comments would be welcome and appreciated at <LINK TO DISCUSSION HERE>. ~~~~
Don't necessarily take this verbatim, this is just my suggestion and (as it was written by me) is not unlikely too verbose and complex. When you're ready, open the RfD and then place the notices. Thryduulf (talk) 09:30, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
- Very helpful, thanks. I have gently reworked your proposed notice:
- At Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2011 July 22#Pro-Palestinian consensus was reached to retarget the "Pro-Palestinian" redirect from "Israeli-Palestinian conflict" to "Palestinian cause". On 14 August 2011 Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Palestinian cause was closed as "Redirect to Israeli-Palestinian conflict", inadvertently reversing the consensus reached at the RfD regarding the "Pro-Palestinian" redirect (the redirect was not mentioned during the discussion).
- In subsequent discussion at Talk:Pro-Palestinian#Extract from RFD discussion for future reference it has been suggested that both redirects ("Pro-Palestinian" and "Palestinian cause") would be better targeted at Palestinian nationalism. It was also agreed to initiate a widely-advertised RfD, with notifications to relevant WikiProjects and participants in the AfD and RfD. Accordingly, your comments are invited at <LINK TO DISCUSSION HERE>. ~~~~
Bridgeplayer (talk) 18:17, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
- Yep, that's better wording. Thanks. Thryduulf (talk) 19:36, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
- OK, it's done. I hope I did it right. I put RFD tags on both redirect pages. Then edited here, and pasted the above notification on all AfD participants + you two guys for reference (I believe there was only the three of us on the RfD). Best, —Ireilly talk 09:11, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
- I just added the notification here. Please let me know if you see any other Project/Portal I could post it to. TIA. Thanks to Bridgeplayer for replacing the last link with the relevant discussion page on all participant pages... I had misunderstood "HERE" as referring to this page we're on in "<LINK TO DISCUSSION HERE>" :o\ Best, —Ireilly talk 15:35, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
- OK, it's done. I hope I did it right. I put RFD tags on both redirect pages. Then edited here, and pasted the above notification on all AfD participants + you two guys for reference (I believe there was only the three of us on the RfD). Best, —Ireilly talk 09:11, 26 August 2011 (UTC)