Talk:Princess Royal Island

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The article has a number of incorrect facts.

Although the Tsimshiam are historically the largest group to inhabit the island there were other non-native communities on the island until recently. Butdale cannery, in its day was one of the largest canneries on the north coast. It operated until the early 1960’s. At the end of Surf inlet is a large dam and remnants of the power house. This dam supplied power to a mining community further inland on the island. This mine ran until the late 1940’s and was British Columbia’s most productive gold mine in its day. There were a couple of other non-native communities that also impacted Princess Royal Islands resources early in the 20th century. Near Butedale and across on the mainland side from the island was Swanson Bay, the site of BC’s first wood pulp mill. Another large mine and community was found along the Kutze River – you can still easily find the rail line. Today you have a number of large floating lodges that can be found in Banard Harbour along the north west side of the island.

Also, as noted in your article about the Kermode Bear, this bear is not found just on Princess Royal Island. There are also not grizzly bears on Princess Royal Island or mountain goats.

thanks for the tips; some content here was provided by Great Bear Rainforest gee-whizzers/promoters and so wasn't reliable to start with, I guess.....I'll try and find the info on the mine and the pulp mill, should be in gov records somewhere.Skookum1 (talk) 15:35, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Name origin

From what I know, the island's name is a rendering of the Princesa Real's, a Spanish-era exploration/trade ship later bought and re-named the SS Princess Royal; not part of the CPR's "Princess" fleet, though, earlier than that...I'll check BCGNIS and get back.Skookum1 (talk) 15:35, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Or rather, now my memory is jogged, British ships seized and renamed by tgeh Spanish.....this is from BCGNIS, re Princess Royal Point at Nootka Sound:

Origin Notes and History

Adopted 10 January 1935 on C.3645, as submitted by Hydrographic Service. Source: BC place name cards, or correspondence to/from BC's Chief Geographer or BC Geographical Names Office

Named by H.D. Parizeau, Hydrographic Service, after one of the British trading vessels seized by the Spaniards in Friendly Cove (Nootka Island) in 1789. Source: BC place name cards, or correspondence to/from BC's Chief Geographer or BC Geographical Names Office

"...The Princess Royal, in charge of Captain William Hudson... in company with the Argonaut, Captain Colnett, and, arriving at Nootka after the Spaniards had taken possession of the place, both vessels were most unjustifiably, in July 1789, seized by them. The crew, cargo and stores were turned out of the Princess Royal and the vessl placed in the Spanish naval service with Sub-lieutenant Quimper in command. In 1790 Quimper was sent to explore in her the strait of Juan de Fuce. Owing to the vigorous measures taken by the British government on hearing of the capture of their merchant vessels, the Argonaut and the Princess Royal were released, the former at Monterey with the crews of the two vessels, and the latter by Quimper at the Sandwich Islands in March 1791..." [see also Princess Royal Island]

Source: Walbran, John T; British Columbia Coast Names, 1592-1906: their origin and history; Ottawa, 1909 (republished for the Vancouver Public Library by J.J. Douglas Ltd, Vancouver, 1971)

Or, we, well then again, here's what it says about Kingcome Point:

Kingcome Point adopted in the 2nd Report of the Geographic Board of Canada, 30 June 1900. "Kingcome Point (not Kingcombe)" identified in the 6th Report, 30 June 1906 et seq. Source: BC place name cards, or correspondence to/from BC's Chief Geographer or BC Geographical Names Office

Confirmed 14 June 1946 on 103 SE, 2 March 1950 on c.3740 and 2 October 1952 on 103H. Source: Canadian Geographical Names Database, Ottawa

"Named c1867 by Captain Pender, RN, after Captain William Kingcome of the mercantile marine, nephew of Rear Admiral John Kingcome, commander in chief on this station 1863-64. Captain Kingcome had charge of the Hudson's Bay Company's barque 'Princess Royal', 1862-63, having previously been first master on her 1859-61, under the command of Captain J.T.Trivett. The names of Trivett and Kingcome points, in close association with each other, were doubtless given to points on Princess Royal Island, as the name of the island coincided with the name of their ship."

Source: Walbran, John T; British Columbia Coast Names, 1592-1906: their origin and history; Ottawa, 1909 (republished for the Vancouver Public Library by J.J. Douglas Ltd, Vancouver, 1971)

Seems there's another Princess Royal, owned by the HBC, maybe named in honour of the Nootka sound one? Can't remember if there was a princess royal, i.e. a princes of that stature/title, in the 1860s....(usually means the wife of a crown prince, i.e. the Prince of Wales)

Well, finally I found the Princess Royal Island BCGNIS entry, and it's the marine fur trade vessel seized by the Spanish, just after its captain named this island, in fact. I'll condense the material for the page later, but here it is for now in case anyone else would care to:

Related Mapsheets

103A/10 103A/11 103A/14 103A/15 103H/2 103H/3 103H/6 103H/7

Origin Notes and History Adopted in the 18th Report of the Geographic Board of Canada, 31 March 1924. Re-approved 6 April 1926 on C.324; 14 June 1946 on 103/SE; 5 May 1949 on C.3723; 2 March 1950 on C.3740, and 6 April 1950 on C.3742. Source: BC place name cards, or correspondence to/from BC's Chief Geographer or BC Geographical Names Office

"Named in 1788 by Captain Charles Duncan, after his sloop "Princess Royal", 50 tons burden. This small vessel, belonging to Messrs Etches & Co. of London, had quite an adventurous career on this coast. She left England in September 1786, manned by fifteen men, in company with the "Prince of Wales", Captain Colnett. After calling at Staten Island they rounded Cape Horn and arrived at Nootka in July 1787. Here they found that the Imperial Eagle, a large fur trading ship, had anticipated them and in consequence trade was very slack, and they soon sailed for King William's Sound, meeting Dixon's "Queen Charlotte" off Nootka 8 August [and being advised by him] to steer for the Queen Charlotte Islands, where he had met with such a good market....Duncan spent from 14 May to 5 August 1788 trading for sea otter skins between Queen Charlotte Islands and the large islands to the eastward off the continental shore. This group was named after the sloop, Princess Royal Isles. Duncan sailed into the inner channels and on several nights, like Vancouver did afterwards, moored his vessel to the trees, there being no available anchorage. The natives attacked him in these inner channels and he nearly lost his boat's crew. Duncan anchored in Safety Cove 22 July and sailed for the southward on 3 August. The sloop fell in with Captain Meares off Ahousat, and after anchoring there, left the coast for China...." [see also Princess Royal Point]

Source: Walbran, John T; British Columbia Coast Names, 1592-1906: their origin and history; Ottawa, 1909 (republished for the Vancouver Public Library by J.J. Douglas Ltd, Vancouver, 1971)

Skookum1 (talk) 15:59, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

My understanding of this ship's story is mostly but not quite in line with the above info -- The Princess Royal seized by Martínez in 1789 at Nootka Sound and taken to Mexico. Called Princesa Real while under Spanish control was sailed back to Nootka by Manuel Quimper in 1790 when Francisco de Eliza reoccupied Nootka. The ship was to be returned to the British but none were at Nootka at the time, so Quimper, with Gonzalo López de Haro used it to explore the Strait of Juan de Fuca, finding the San Juan Islands and Haro Strait -- one of the key exploration voyages in the region. Quimper had trouble returning to Nootka and instead took the Princesa Real back to Mexico. Then in 1791 Quimper took the ship in another attempt to return it to the British, sailing to Hawaii, then the Philippines. Then another Spaniard took it to Macao where it was returned to the British. But soon after a hurricane struck Macao, damaging the Princess Royal, which was later sold for salvage. In any case, the this ship was one of the important issues of negotiation during the first Nootka Conventions and the difficulties in carrying them out, as well as playing a role in Spanish exploration of the Pacific Northwest and Hawaii. The wiki page on Quimper goes into detail on the return of the ship at Macao, not Hawaii. Pfly (talk) 16:33, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

And, fwiw, the Hayes atlas agrees with the BCGNIS entry for the island -- that it was named by Charles Duncan in 1788 for his ship, Princess Royal. This being before the Spanish captured and renamed it. Pfly (talk) 05:38, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Any idea which Princess Royal - which princess in the immediate family of George III, that is - that Duncan's ship was named for, if any? On the Monarchy page linked it hadsaid named for Queen Vicky when she was Princess Royal, but that's obviously not right; any clue from the 1780s or whenver the ship was built if there wa a particular princess it honoured? Whoever that is should be re-added to the Monarchy page.Skookum1 (talk) 14:12, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't know for sure, but I would guess Charlotte, Princess Royal, daughter of Queen Charlotte. Also of note is that the ship Princess Royal was the tender companion to the much larger Prince of Wales. A book that looks like it has lots of detail about these ships and their activity in the late 1780s is "Voyage to the Northwest Side of America: The Journals of James Colnett, 1786-89". Also, while there's no wikipedia page for either ship, there is one for Queen Charlotte (1785 ship), the one captained by Dixon and for whom the Queen Charlotte Islands are apparently named. Pfly (talk) 21:32, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Surf Inlet Mines

thats actually Inc. or Ltd; the Surf Inlet gold mine otherwise; taking the tip from the un-ID'd post at the top of this discussions I looked up Princess Royal Island on Minfile and found []http://minfile.gov.bc.ca/Summary.aspx?minfilno=103H++027 this]there's others for other mines, this would appear to tbe the big gold mine....if anyone would care to extract info and add to the article, great; at least I found a resource; I'm curious how ot compares to Bridge River, Atlin, Cariboo.........I'm unaware of a company town or named camp at this location, anything like a ghost town, maybe someone else can find that out, if there was one; otheerwise I guess Butedale was the basetownSkookum1 (talk) 03:34, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Klemtu

is klemtu on Pr. Royal Ilsnad or another island? Also, maybe we should make some notes on the cannery at Klemtu and Bella² —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.81.76.183 (talk) 20:43, 9 July 2008 (UTC)