Talk:Presidency of Abraham Lincoln/Archive 1

Archive 1

Something isn't right here... This whole page looks copy-pasted!!!!

Maybe it's just me, but this page seems to be virtually identical to the portion of the Abraham Lincoln article which talks about his presidency and his actions during the Civil War. Perhaps it would be a good idea to merge the two? I normally dislike merging, but in this case, I feel that it just might be warranted. --Luigifan (talk) 16:29, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

You are right that this started as just a cut and paste from the main article. I assume the original intent was to expand this article and reduce the size of the original article -- there was some discussion of this on the main article's talk page, but nobody has followed through. Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 17:14, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Work in Process

I'm making a start at revamping this article. My first effort was with the article lede -- I expanded it to two paragraphs and probably need one or two more to cover the actual events of the war. Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 15:48, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Today I greatly expanded the section on the secession winter. The intent is to slowly expand the balance of the article with a similar level of detail. Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 19:09, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

I replaced the long section on the assasination and replaced it with the lede from the assassination article. Under WP:Summary style, a major point is to reduce repetition by having only a short version of material covered in greater detail in a sister article. I totally eliminated the section on "Redefining Republicanism". At this point it is a total duplication of material from the main article and does not need to be in two places. This article is going to, as much as possible, proceed chronologically -- an analytical piece such as this section belongs, IMHO, in the main article although portions of it may be integrated elsewhere in this article. Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) (This should have been signed and dated August 17)

Today I revised the section regarding the Inauguration. I added sources and changed the info. on how security was handled. I made this into a sub section and intend to add addition subsections under the main heading in the future. There probably should be a paragraph or two added on the reaction, both positive and negative, to his address. Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 17:06, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Abraham Lincoln and the Civil War

I just noticed that Abraham Lincoln and the Civil War (ALATCW) is some sort of Frankenstein's Monster of pasted gunk from other articles and it covers more of his Presidency than it does the CW. The article actually contains less information than the article here does about ALATCW. This is all bassackwards. Anyway, I don't think we should be pointing to ALATCW as a main article from the Assuming command for the Union in the war section as it won't help a reader learn more. Brad (talk) 22:07, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Actually the first half of that article is not "pasted gunk" but was created uniquely for that article (by me). The intent was to create an article that would live up to the title given it, but, as you can see, nothing much has been added in the last 25 months. If it ever gets finished the title should probably be changed to Presidency of Abraham Lincoln.

In any event, I agree that the existing reference to this article should be eliminated. I do think, however, that there would be value in adding a reference from the main article section 1860 election and secession to Abraham Lincoln and the Civil War#Secession winter 1860–1861. Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 00:49, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

I took a slower second look at the page and it does contain more extended information than is shown here. I propose moving ALATCW to Presidency of Abraham Lincoln (POAL) (currently a redirect to Abraham Lincoln) and placing the link to POAL underneath the AL main article section Presidency. In addition, the current article content here about POAL could simply be copied into POAL in order to fill out the article. Yes? No? Brad (talk) 21:18, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Works for me. --Coemgenus (talk) 21:27, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Good idea. a great deal happened in his administration that is not part of his biography--actions by Treasury and Congress, for example. Rjensen (talk) 21:50, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes. Alanscottwalker (talk) 22:29, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

I'd like to hear from Tom (North Shoreman) before making a move. He appears as the main editor of that article. Just to clarify, there's no requirement that text from this article has to be copied over to POAL. Brad (talk) 01:03, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

I have no problem with changing the name of the article. I'm not sure what benefit there would be from further copying of material from this article into POAL. The material that I haven't changed was previously copied into the article and then never followed up on -- the followup is the problem. My vision of the future development of the article is at [[1]]. Right now I'm ambivalent about my future involvement with wikipedia so I don't know how much I'll be working on it in the future. Give me a week or so to see what I can do about filling out the article. Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 14:02, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

And probably this entire discussion should be copied or linked and continued on that talk page for all those interested. Alanscottwalker (talk) 11:18, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes. I agree. Presidency of Abraham Lincoln is a good idea. I believe that way the Western and Eastern part of the American Civil War can be addressed, along with Foreign Policy, Economy, and Indian Wars. Cmguy777 (talk) 02:14, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

While these issues would certainly be covered in more depth, an article on Lincoln's presidency is still going to be primarily about Lincoln's actions. The place to create a thorough history of the Union during the Civil War is probably at Union (American Civil War) -- an article that at present has very little purpose (see Talk:Union (American Civil War)#Why have this article?). Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 14:13, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

OK, I agree and have started to beef up Union (American Civil War). Rjensen (talk) 19:20, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

The above conversation is copied from Talk:Abraham_Lincoln#Abraham_Lincoln_and_the_Civil_War. Brad (talk) 17:26, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Admin assisted move needed. Request filed. Brad (talk) 17:45, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Farewell address

Abraham Lincoln's Farewell Address is about the same size as the entry on this page. Maybe merge here or expand there. Brad (talk) 05:24, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Foreign Policy

Since this article focuses on Lincoln's Presidency, I believe a Foreign Policy section would be appropriate. Were any treaties signed by the Lincoln Administration? Cmguy777 (talk) 21:11, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Issues with Emancipation Proclamation Section

The opening section on the Emancipation Proclamation reads as follows:

"Lincoln is well known for ending slavery in the United States. In 1861–62, Lincoln made it clear that the North was fighting the war to preserve the Union and abolish slavery. Freeing the slaves became, in late 1862, a war measure to weaken the rebellion by destroying the economic base of its leadership class.

Here's my issue with this: it says that Lincoln asserted that the war was about preserving the Union and abolishing slavery. But it then proceeds to quote Lincoln's famous assertion that the primary purpose of the war was the Union's preservation at any cost. In other words, it contradicts itself.

It's well known that Lincoln's primary purpose at the war's outset was preservation of the Union, and this was true in 1862 -- even with the Proclamation. If the Proclamation's true purpose was the outright abolition of slavery, it would have also freed slaves in the border states -- but it didn't.

Sorry if I sound pedantic here, I just wanted to clarify this very important point. I went and ahead and changed the sentence in bold around.Concchambers (talk) 19:45, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

November 1, 2015 - multiple additions

I was surprised to find that for an article that contained a great deal of info on the creation of his first cabinet, there was still some important info missing. I added a list of the cabinet positions at the top of the section along with a link to 'us cabinet' which I think is somewhat necessary. Also important was the fact that many of his first choices didn't last long. I have added the names and dates of the other men who served in his cabinet over his entire presidency, along with refs. However, I only added minimal info with these additions. I didn't want to seem to be trampling on the work of others here (good work by the way). If anyone (like those previously invested in this page) wishes to expand on the info of these other men (especially Stanton, along with Fessenden and Speed) please do so. These were important figures during Lincoln's time in office. - ^theWOLFchild 08:10, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

New book, in case of interest:

Lincoln, the Law, and Presidential Leadership edited by Charles M. Hubbard, 2015, Southern Illinois University Press Jodi.a.schneider (talk) 21:11, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Archive 1