Talk:Pre-Columbian Mexico

Mexico High‑importance

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Mesoamerica (inactive)

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History Mid‑importance

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Article name/move

I've moved this article back to its original title Pre-Columbian Mexico, from Pre-Columbian Mesoamerica, for several reasons. Firstly this article is apparently split off from History of Mexico one, and as such is part of a series. Secondly, Mesoamerican culture area does not cover all regions of contemporary Mexico, and neither is all of Mesoamerica included within Mexico's bounds; the two are not synonymous. Thirdly we already have articles on Mesoamerica and History of Mesoamerica, so another one wld be redundant.

It seems the objection to the title/scope 'pre-Columbian Mexico' was that it is anachronistic, ie Mexico did not exist per se in precolumbian times. As a political state this is surely true, however the intention of this article I believe is to give an account of the cultural history/prehistory of the peoples who occupied what is now the territory of Mexico. This is a valid scope/intent as even though precolumbian events (well) preceded the formation of the current state, it's of interest and relevance to illustrate any connections and continuities in what has been a continuously inhabited region. It does not imply that mexico existed even as a concept, way back then.

See also similar articles such as prehistoric France, prehistoric Britain; that do much the same thing without implying there is any ahistorical use here of either 'France' or 'Britain', they're just convenient and readily understood shorthand ways to refer to such (pre-)historical eras.--cjllw ʘ TALK 07:50, 20 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Because Christopher Columbus never came to Mexico, nor did he know it, it is more appropriate to say "Pre-Hispanic Mexico", which is also the most widespread denomination in Mexico and in the Spanish language (México prehispánico). – El Mono 🐒 (es.wiki account) 20:13, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Pre-Olmec Mesoamerican History

Currently the only information about the history of the cultures prior to or parallel to the Olmec Civilization is this: "Indigenous peoples began to selectively breed maize plants around 8,000 BC". No mention of the Archaic/PalaeoIndian Mesoamerican Cultures and archaeological sites: Chalco Culture (in the Mexican valley), Cochise Culture (on the borders of modern South New Mexico and North Mexico), Iztapa culture (in Guatemala), Matanchén (in Western Mexico), Puerta Parada (in Guatemala), Los Tapiales (in Totonicapán), Chajbal (in Quiché), Chivacabé (in Huehuetenango), Nahualá (in Sololá); or the early Pre-Classic: Monte Alto culture, Soconusco (in Chiapas & the Guatemalan Pacific Coast), Ocós culture, and Mokaya culture; or the Archaic Era of Acapulco: the Puerto Marqués site (near Acapulco), and the Río Balsas site (at Soledad de Maciel near Petatlán). I admit that not all of these are equally notable, or equally "Mexican", but I’m honestly wondering why those that are notable and relevant aren't even included in a “see also”-like list on the bottom of the article. Moreover, many of the sites above aren't mentioned anywhere in Wikipedia (only the article on Mesoamerica gives some epigrammatic information on them). Either more archaeological details should be given here (as is done in the article on Prehistoric Armenia), or there should exist a separate article called Archaeology of Mexico which will be specialized in "notable findings and sites" (cf. the article on the Archaeology of Israel). Omnipedian (talk) 01:17, 24 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, information on archaic and early/mid formative cultures & sites is rather light-on and quite dispersed among our current compilation of Meso/nth am. articles. Not by design or intentional omission mind you, but more a factor of there being only a handful of active contributors with the interest/knowledge in this area, who are generally flat out maintaining what info we do happen to have here. Any of those mentioned wld benefit from some attention- pls feel free to work on whichever of those takes your fancy, if you've the inclination and the refs to hand. --cjllw ʘ TALK 08:26, 24 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Unreferenced

I've flagged this article as unreferenced, since two sources cited in the introduction doesn't really count. I've also removed a good chunk of the Toltec section. The Toltecs didn't speak Nahuatl; that language was brought in with the Aztec migrations of the early 13th century. They also didn't have an empire that stretched from the US Southwest to Central America. Lack of citations aside, parts of this article seem to have a strong nationalist slant. It may have be reworked to sound more encyclopedic. Snickeringshadow (talk) 09:18, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Accomplishments

Seems really out of place, or maybe mistitled. I don't recall seeing "Accomplishments" as the first section of any other culture / civ page. E.g. "Babylonia" or "Rome" or "Shang dynasty" don't have any similar section. What is mentioned in "Accomplishments" is usually put under the heading of "Culture" or "Mathematics" or "Architecture". That said this article is pretty light relative to other well-known civs, so maybe the best way to fix this is really to flush out more detailed and atomic sections. Maddata (talk) 12:25, 29 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]