Talk:Poverty in ancient Rome

Poverty in ancient Rome is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination was archived. For older candidates, please check the archive.

Poverty in ancient Rome has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
July 28, 2024	Good article nominee	Listed
August 17, 2024	Featured article candidate	Not promoted

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on August 27, 2022.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the poor of ancient Rome were compared to dogs by the Roman writer Martial?

Current status: Former featured article candidate, current good article

Articles for creation

	This article was reviewed by member(s) of WikiProject Articles for creation. The project works to allow users to contribute quality articles and media files to the encyclopedia and track their progress as they are developed. To participate, please visit the project page for more information.Articles for creationWikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creationTemplate:WikiProject Articles for creationAfC
	This article was accepted from this draft on 10 August 2022 by reviewer Gusfriend (talk · contribs).

History Low‑importance

	History portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the subject of History on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Historyhistory
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Classical Greece and Rome Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome, a group of contributors interested in Wikipedia's articles on classics. If you would like to join the WikiProject or learn how to contribute, please see our project page. If you need assistance from a classicist, please see our talk page.Classical Greece and RomeWikipedia:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeTemplate:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeClassical Greece and Rome
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Economics Low‑importance

	Business and economics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Economics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Economics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EconomicsWikipedia:WikiProject EconomicsTemplate:WikiProject EconomicsEconomics
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Sociology Low‑importance

	Society portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sociology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of sociology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SociologyWikipedia:WikiProject SociologyTemplate:WikiProject Sociologysociology
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Rome Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Rome, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the city of Rome and ancient Roman history on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.RomeWikipedia:WikiProject RomeTemplate:WikiProject RomeRome
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Z1720 (talk) 00:12, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that the Roman writer Martial compared the poor to dogs? Source: Erdkamp, Paul, ed. (September 30, 2013), The Cambridge Companion to Ancient Rome, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, doi:10.1017/CCO9781139025973, ISBN 978-113-902-597-3, archived from the original (PDF) on June 16, 2018, retrieved August 8, 2022.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Sensory friendly

Created by Graearms (talk). Self-nominated at 15:37, 10 August 2022 (UTC).[reply]

~~Review underway.~~ BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:05, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Everything appears good. QPQ done. AGF on the source which I can't access. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:19, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Just as a note the wrong source is listed above, it's actually the source Poverty in the Roman World which is referenced in the article. I am able to confirm that page 95 of that book does indeed verify the text in the hook: The association of the poor with dogs recurs in different forms in other epigrams of Martial. It then goes on to describe various things "the pauper" will do that is like a dog. The Cambridge Companion to Ancient Rome is available through the Wikipedia Library and is in a searchable form and does not, to the best that I can tell, mention anything about comparing the poor with dogs, but the Poverty in the Roman World source absolutely does. - Aoidh (talk) 11:07, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Graearms: I added a citation needed tag to the article. Can you resolve this? Thanks, Z1720 (talk) 23:32, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I just fixed it. Thank you for notifying me of this issue and helping me improve this article. Graearms (talk) 23:37, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

Passed. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 22:41, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Poverty in ancient Rome/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Graearms (talk · contribs) 17:41, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Iazyges (talk · contribs) 06:43, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Will take this on. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 06:43, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Criteria

GA Criteria

GA Criteria:

1
1.a Y

1.b Y
2
2.a Y

2.b Y

2.c Y

2.d Y
3
3.a Y

3.b Y
4
4.a Y
5
5.a Y
6
6.a N

6.b Y

No DAB links Y
No dead links Y
No missing citations Y
Passes spot checks Y
Ref 101: Hands 1968, p. 54. Y

Ref 141: Bowes 2011, p. 9. Y

Ref 5: Osborne & Atkins 2006, p. 5. Y -- Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 20:22, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Apologies for the delay! For 6a: The files were missing a part of the licensure; as they need a license for both object and photographer. For File:Duble herma of Socrates and Seneca Antikensammlung Berlin 07.jpg and File:Roman Empire Apartment (2751806330).jpg, we have the copyright tag for the photographer of the photos, so I have added the relevant object tag, but for File:Sale bread MAN Napoli Inv9071 n01.jpg, we have the work tag but not author tag. From metadata, it appears to be CCA, and the author is tagged as the uploader, so I've reached out to them to clarify. For File:Roman harvester, Trier.jpg, I am struggling to find an older version, but with works that far back that is not always proof of originality. The poster seems to have had some issues with derivative work & copyright, so unless it can be identified that the work was posted under an acceptable license (which would be very difficult if not impossible), I think this work needs to be removed/replaced from the article. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 16:54, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Would the file Mähmaschine.jpg be an acceptable substitute for the file Roman harvester, Trier.jpg? Graearms (talk) 19:00, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Graearms: Yep! I have added the 3d tag for it. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 18:52, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Iazyges I have replaced the image. Graearms (talk) 18:56, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Prose Suggestions

Please note that almost all of these are suggestions, and can be implemented or ignored at your discretion. Any changes I deem necessary for the article to pass GA standards I will bold.

The good reputation the wealthy would gather through these efforts allowed for them to gain favors from other wealthy Romans. In the Pro Plancio, a legal defense of Gnaeus Placius in 54 BCE, Cicero asks "Who ever can have, or who ever had such resources in himself as to be able to stand without many acts of kindness on the part of many friends?" it looks like the primary source is being used to cover the The good reputation the wealthy would gather through these efforts allowed for them to gain favors from other wealthy Romans. bit as well as the In the Pro Plancio, a legal defense of Gnaeus Placius in 54 BCE, Cicero asks "Who ever can have, or who ever had such resources in himself as to be able to stand without many acts of kindness on the part of many friends?" section; while the primary source is fine for the second portion, we would want an independent source for the first one.
Clement I, the Catholic pope from 88 to 99 CE seems easier to phrase this as Catholic Pope Clement I (r. 88–099).
All throughout, there is inconsistent titling of emperors, with some being called emperor on their first mention and others not. I would suggest standardizing to "Emperor [X]", and including reign templates, such as: "Emperor [X] (r. y–z)" on their first mention, and merely [X] afterwards.
I've fixed the more tedious bits (typos, grammar, duplicate links, duplicate refs, ref issues).
@Graearms: That is all my suggestions; once the ref piece above is resolved, I will pass the review. A very neat little article; I shall hope to see it at FAC. Apologies again for the delay! Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 20:25, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Iazyges: I should have fixed these issues in a few recent edits Graearms (talk) 22:23, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Great! Passing now. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 22:40, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.