Talk:Post-punk revival

Please Define "Angular" Or Don't Use It

Going to wait awhile and see who can justify the use of the word "angular" in this article where it appears. Then I'm going to come back here and remove it because it's nonsense. Gabriel Arthur Petrie (talk) 16:47, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Gabriel Arthur Petrie - the word is still there! ;-) . Ha. Like you, I wasn't sure what it meant, so looked it up: [1], [2], [3]. It seems to mean music that jumps around, or goes in different directions, or is jagged, or changes tempo. Essentially, music that has angles rather than music that is smooth. SilkTork (talk) 17:20, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Conflation

It seems most of this article was written well before the actual decline of the subgenre, before it was able to be viewed in hindsight. Furthermore, the article is conflating post-punk inspired bands with all indie rock of the early/mid 00s. Post-punk revival was never that broad. It was primarily defined by the "darker" influence of the progenitors of late 70s/early 80s post-punk and gothic rock bands as a launching point, specifically Joy Division. For example, Interpol received many comparisons to Joy Division due to Paul Banks' vocal style and guitar tones, while the White Stripes and The Strokes were considered more of a garage rock band. Bands like Editors (at least their early material) were considered in the darker vein of Joy Division-influenced bands as well, but bands like Bloc Party were not. The article also points to the decline around 2007, while completely ignoring the popular resurgence of post-punk revival bands from 2007-2009 such as The Bravery, She Wants Revenge, The Cinematics, White Lies, and so forth, who integrated darker tones and aesthetic styles from the original post-punk movement. The first sentence of the article describes alternate terms for the subgenre, yet each term seems to describe a separate musical style. Therefore there needs to be further divergence between these subgenres, with post-punk revival being described as more influenced by gothic rock, while the rest can be classified as subgenres of indie rock, garage rock, new wave, etc. 70.79.59.95 (talk) 20:00, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

You are conflating post-punk and gothic rock, which, while intersecting, are not at all synonyms. The latter is just one element of post-punk. In any case, the post-punk revival was certainly not solely or even primarily defined by the darker/JD-influenced element. Here's the most relevant sentence on that: "Music critic Simon Reynolds noted that bands like the Rapture and Franz Ferdinand were influenced by the more angular strain of post-punk, particularly bands such as Wire and Gang of Four." While personally I love the Interpol/Editors style of post-punk, it wasn't the most common at that time. If anything, the funkier Gang of Four-influenced pool of bands in the early to mid-'00s was the largest one, both in the UK and NYC.Greg Fasolino (talk) 15:24, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

I'm talking in terms of the "revival" aspect taking cues from gothic rock, in particular the wave in the later 00s (the bands I mentioned above as well as Blank Dogs, Crystal Stilts, The Horrors, later Interpol albums). There was no movement referred to as "gothic rock revival" in the 00s, though the style would make the term more appropriate for the sounds it spawned. The key bands in the original wave of post-punk that inspired these bands had far more crossover with gothic rock - although gothic rock wasn't called as such when Joy Division and Siouxsie were gaining popularity; it wasn't until Bauhaus made the gothic elements more prominent that the rest. But Joy Division is the most prominent comparison with the era I'm referring to, which the article doesn't cover. 70.79.59.95 (talk) 21:38, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

I have removed the "needs attention from an expert" tag as the article does explain very well the uses of the term, and that the term itself is nebulous, and critics disagree on it. What is true is that the article uses far too many examples. Long lists of bands is not helpful - what is preferable to mention is bands who were prominent in some way - see Wikipedia:Meaningful examples in pop culture. SilkTork (talk) 09:00, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

I don't think the second paragraph under the "2011–present: Resurgence" heading (about Black Midi, Squid etc.) belongs in this article. The scene it describes, while aspects of it are inspired by post-punk, spans a wide range of genres, the only thing that really groups those bands together is location and how different they all sound [4]. Maybe a new article is needed? TheGreedyBobcat (talk) 04:01, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Article seems due for re-consideration

This article seems to cut far too wide a swathe through 2000s rock music to be meaningfully useful to someone not already versed in this era's rock music. Some of the timeline makes little sense, as many of the acts that the article places squarely within the genre (particularly The Black Keys and Yeah Yeah Yeahs) experienced their peak popularity during the genre's supposed "decline". Meanwhile, the most popular albums by the two bands credited as being responsible for this genre's decline came out during the supposed height of the genre. Several of the bands referenced in the article (to say nothing of the accompanying 'bands in the genre' article) really have no place in this genre whatsoever.

I am going to take some time, check some of these sources and gather a few more and then attempt to revise this with a radically narrower focus. Part of that would be to scrap the "decline" section and replace the "renewed interest" section with something like "influence of the genre" section to allow for some context without attempting to place dubiously related bands within the same 'genre'. Nemo1342 (talk) 20:45, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

Black Keys aren't really 2000s post-punk revival, but Yeah Yeah Yeahs are. Black Keys are more of a bluesy folky thing and they hit their peak popularity about 10 years after the wave of the post-punk revival that included Franz Ferdinand, the Strokes, etc. Anyway, I recommend you do not wholesale scrap any sections or engage in any major drastic rewrites unless you are removing unsourced or unreliably sourced material. Wikipedia is built incrementally and iteratively, so each one of your edits should WP:PRESERVE what exists now and build upon it. Andre🚐 22:12, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

Agreed, I brought up the Black Keys because the article did, but I don't think they really belong in this discussion at all. Nemo1342 (talk) 01:00, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

See also indie sleaze, Meet Me in the Bathroom (book)/film. It's pretty clear to me that the sound DID decline in the later 2000s with the rise in popularity of EDM, and the more straight ahead anthemic indie rock or electronic synth pop of that time (not to mention the continued erosion of rock-like acts by pop, R&B, hip-hop, country, etc). Not to mention we in the 2020s seem to have a pop-punk revival going on in full steam, which is more of a throwback to the early 2000s and late-90s as well. But as far as "post-punk" writ large it is not a narrow but quite a broad term to describe post-new wave, darkwave, next wave, but also could technically reach into quite a few different veins even grunge or Britpop or jam bands at times are all influenced by punk. The bottom line is as long as you are drawing upon authoritative sources for the material that you insert into articles, you will be ok. Andre🚐 22:17, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

I agree that there are basically two ways to approach a revision of this topic. One would be to narrow it to the specific period and movement in popular rock music of the early 2000s that the article seems to refer to as "post-punk". That's the approach I was proposing, and that would excise some of the excesses of the article that brought me to come edit it.

On the other hand, you make a good point, which is that the topic of "post-punk" is rightly a much much broader subject that has little to do with the particular period of music discussed in this article (i.e. Strokes, Interpol, Franz Ferdinand, The Killers, etc.) and is really better located in new wave, no wave, hardcore, grunge, and then much of the post-grunge indie rock scene, plus a whole lot more. That article would probably be closer to accurately informing someone who searches for information on "post-punk". But again, that article would little resemble what sits here. So I suppose I would propose re-naming this article with a narrower title (I have no idea what that would be), and writing a more informative article on music branching off of punk rock. Nemo1342 (talk) 01:09, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

Well, but, the point is that post-punk revival is the term that the sources cited in the article use for this genre and period. In many ways it was more like a new-wave revival than a post-punk revival. The comparisons were to bands like Gang of Four (band), The Cure, The Smiths, Echo and the Bunnymen, Television bands thought of as post-punk (and gothic rock, or jangle pop, or dance punk) and indeed, bands such as Interpol (which sounds a lot like Joy Division), Bloc Party, Kaiser Chiefs, The Faint, The Killers, The Arcade Fire, The Bravery, are thought of as dance-punk/dance-rock, art-punk/art-rock, etc. So I'm not sure I agree with you that this is off target. There is another article called post-punk. Andre🚐 02:01, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

Post punk as a continuum

Sure, the genre saw a revival, but is it really accurate to call the genre “revival” when it’s really the same genre as post punk? Like black midi isn’t a post punk revival band… it’s a post punk band. 2603:6010:11F0:3C0:E1C8:76F5:1BB2:6403 (talk) 17:19, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

There are sources in the article that refer to it as such Andre🚐 19:27, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

But many other sources in the article, and within their respective Wikipedia articles, also refer to them simply as post-punk. I’ve not seen where it’s specifically called a genre, rather than calling the bands part of the movement. If it has the same elements as post punk, it doesn’t make sense to me (and based on the sources where they’re simply called “post-punk”) to label it a revival when it’s a long lasting continuum the same as punk is when it evolved and had numerous revivals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:6010:11F0:3C0:6004:6D03:C008:EDA6 (talk) 00:38, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Article in need of a re-write

The current version of the arcticle isn't great, I think It would be much better to salvage what is good from the article and start a fresh the section on post-punk revival/garage rock revival on the indie rock page seems much better written and would in my opinon be a good starting point for this article (providing the sourced material is accurate). Obviously this is a big change and an agreement of mutiple users would seem necessary.

Also as a side note I think the section about the "Post-Brexit New Wave" would be better suited to the actual post-punk arcticle as it is a revival that genre rather than the post-punk influenced indie rock that post-punk revival is. OBLIVIUS (talk) 17:56, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Please observe WP:PRESERVE. Incremental changes are preferred to a rewrite unless there's an issue of a copyvio or unreferenced material. And please substantiate with sources. Andre🚐 18:10, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Understandable, might just incorporate the sources from the indie rock article to this one, without drastically removing parts of the article. OBLIVIUS (talk) 20:01, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

That seems good. Andre🚐 23:31, 4 December 2023 (UTC)