Talk:Portrayal of Women in Horror Films

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 January 2019 and 2 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jlanden. Peer reviewers: Lifeisgood20.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 02:34, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2019 and 20 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Foxypolymath, Jeremyrios88. Peer reviewers: Nahomy.ynfante87.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 02:34, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Wandering from topic

This article, much like the article on misogyny in sports, deals more with the role of women in horror films, and only partially reflects the 'misogynistic' ways female characters die. I think this article could actually be deleted. It may have some ground in a few feminist essays, but there is little evidence this exists, and I cannot comprehend how it can be called 'misogyny', which is, by definition, a hatred of women. The word misogyny hardly fits for content. Iheartthestrals (talk) 07:55, 16 February 2016 (UTC) Iheartthestrals (talk) 07:55, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Totally agreed with you. Let's delete this article. Jeandeve (talk) 16:51, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

I'd perhaps suggest a re-naming to "Women in horror fiction" or "Portrayal of women in horror films" before a delete. This article has some okay content, but really needs a re-organizing, probably because of its origins as a school assignment. Andrzejbanas (talk) 19:22, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

I would support deleting this. It is a mess.''Paul, in Saudi'' (talk) 05:16, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

I would suggest adjusting the article's title to "Portrayal of Women in Horror Films" and then restructuring the article according to this new title to focus on various common portrayals of women in horror films (like the final girl for example).Foxypolymath (talk) 18:35, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

Korean horror

The portrayal of women ghosts in these movies may be relevant to this article. Rwood128 (talk) 14:16, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Oddly biased article

This article is bizarre, to say the least, doesn't sound anything like a Wikipedia article, more like a biased essay wrote by some feminist who believes every woman is a victim and every man is a misogynist. How exactly does a 'final girl' evoke misogyny?? If anything shouldn't the final girl be the typical overused feminist word 'empowering' ? The article could be a lot better with a re-write, there is a lot of gory murders in these films, of both men and women. Also, half of the statements are not facts, it is mentioned that final girls are always brunette (which is far from true), majority of the final girls in the Friday the 13th franchise have been blonde, also Carrie is not a 'slasher', it doesn't include a serial killer and it is mostly about a girl being treated appallingly by other females. Reli source (talk) 00:01, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

this article was written as a school assignment, so yeah, its written more as an essay. That should be tagged at least. It's not reading like an encyclopedic article. Andrzejbanas (talk) 15:39, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Speaking of Friday the 13th franchise, who I used to love when I was a teenager, the role of the so-called "final girl" varies per film.:

• In Friday the 13th (1980 film), the girl is Alice. She twice overpowers serial killer Pamela Voorhees, and ends up decapitating Pamela with a machete.
• In Friday the 13th Part 2, the girl is Ginny. She uses a machete to attack serial killer Jason Voorhees, and thinks she has killed him. He returns shortly after, apparently kills her last remaining friend, and then disappears. The film ends with Ginny transferred in an ambulance.
• In Friday the 13th Part III, the girl is Chris Higgins. She uses an axe to kill serial killer Jason Voorhees. The rest of the film is part of her hallucinations.
• In Friday the 13th: The Final Chapter, the girl is Trish Jarvis. She and her brother Tommy Jarvis try to kill serial killer Jason Voorhees. She fails to kill Jason, but Tommy hacks Jason to death. The film ends with Trish trying to comfort her brother, who is visibly disturbed and changed by the experience.
• In Friday the 13th: A New Beginning, the "girl" is Pam Roberts, the adult director of a residential treatment facility. She helps an older Tommy Jarvis kill copycat killer Roy Burns by defenestration. Tommy later snaps, takes the killer's mask for himself, and attempts to kill Pam with a knife. The film ends, leaving it unclear if he did kill her.
• In Friday the 13th Part VI: Jason Lives, the girl is Megan Garris. She throws undead killer Jason Voorhees to the bottom of a lake, where an anchor keeps him trapped.
• In Friday the 13th Part VII: The New Blood, the girl is Tina Shepard, a telekinetic who has trouble controlling her own powers. When facing undead serial killer Jason Voorhees, she raises the corpse of her father from the waters of a lake and causes "dad" to drag Jason to a watery grave.
• In Friday the 13th Part VIII: Jason Takes Manhattan, the girl is Rennie Wickham. She wounds undead killer Jason Voorhees by throwing acid at him. Jason is then trapped in a New York City sewer filled with toxic waste, and there is apparently nothing left of his body.
• In Jason Goes to Hell: The Final Friday, the girl is Jessica Kimble, Jason Voorhees' niece and depicted as a single mother. In this film Jason is a disembodied entity, who keeps switching bodies. She uses a mystical dagger to cause Jason to die for good. Demonic hands appear to pull Jason to Hell.
• In Jason X, there is no final girl, as there are actually several survivors. Jason Voorhees, who has been transported to the 25th century, faces Sergeant Brodski in combat. Brodski ensures that both of them will be incinerated, in order to protect the others.

Trying to shoehorn them all into a single type of character seems rather strange. Dimadick (talk) 11:59, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 21 April 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move Gender in slasher films to Gender in horror films, per the discussion below; no change to the title of this article. It appears that there is support for merging this article to the new Gender in horror films, but that won't be performed as part of the close; please proceed with that process as necessary. Dekimasuよ! 02:00, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

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Misogyny in horror films → Misogyny and horror films – Unlike an article like Misogyny in sports, which has proven examples of misogyny, this article selectively quotes people who interpret the content of horror films as misogynist and reads more like an essay examining only one side. The proposed title would imply a relationship without explicitly stating that horror films are misogynist, which is debatable. _{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 21:21, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose and suggest move Gender in slasher films to Gender in horror films and then merge this article there - Several of the sections in this article don't strictly deal with misogyny (defined as hatred/contempt of women), mostly just simple sexist tropes or even just non-negative information about gender roles in this genre. There is also a Gender in slasher films which could be merged as I don't think we need two articles. Per the talk page message, this page was the creation of someone doing a college course, but that doesn't mean its scope is appropriate as presented. -- Netoholic @ 06:00, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
• Support As the article's sources actually seem to disagree on whether "slasher films ... predominantly victimize women" or not. Dimadick (talk) 12:43, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose because the article title is fine as is; moving it to the proposed title does not improve the matter of the article itself being poor in encyclopedic quality. (And we should not assume false equivalence, that there is an opposite viewpoint of equal validity, to consider.) It does seem like the sourcing is piecemeal with very few having anything directly to do with the topic. It appears that the primary editor is no longer around to communicate with. I would suggest simply cutting back on the article content. A very quick skim of sources show that misogyny has been discussed in regard to slasher films and "torture porn". Another sub-genre for which this comes up is gynaehorror film. This does mention misogyny for the genre, "The American Nightmare bravely sought to move beyond the conventional associations attached to the horror genre: heartless exploitation, slipshod filmmaking, gratuitous violence, unrelieved misogyny, and an inherent silliness that precludes any substantial aesthetic or political ambitions." In essence, a topic is valid to discuss, but this article needs to be cut down to basics. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 12:52, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
• Comment I fully endorse the proposal put forward by Netoholic. I think the current title supports the conclusion of a thesis, rather than the subject matter of a topic under discussion. If you look at the references, only one source actually uses the term "misogyny" in relation to horror film (King, Neal. "Boy Jokes: Content Analysis Of Hollywood Misogyny In Mean Girl And Slasher Movies.) The other "misogyny" references relate to Quentin Tarantino. Betty Logan (talk) 23:16, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose and support move as sugested by Netoholic. Although it is logically wrong to say that X in Y films explicitly states that Y IS X, I find that "Gender" has a much broader scope than "Misogyny" and does not come close to interpreting the content of horror films. Hoverfish Talk 03:45, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

  While I would be fine with a theoretical "Gender in horror film" article, I think that scope is too broad to reasonably contain just coverage about misogyny. It would be a WP:COATRACK appearance. This article needs to be greatly condensed to the sources that matter, and it can then stand alone. If someone does start that gender article, then it could have a summary section referring to this topic (as they would have a summary section for final girl and so forth). Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 12:24, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

  The suggestion of merging Gender in slasher films, sounds like this article would get a major overhaul. But if it is to remain anywhere close to its present contents, then you are right, it would be a tangenial essay to the topic. By the way, even as it is, most of the content IS tangelial to its current title IMO. Hoverfish Talk 16:52, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

  Apart from whether this article is an essay or not, I think that the title that would fit best to the current contents, would be Sexism in horror films. Hoverfish Talk 16:57, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

• Comment Is there a specific genre of exploitative films focused on misogyny? I do like Horror, but I feel like everything I've seen after maybe Scary Movie plays with the trope that women are victims. There are some 1980s films which play with misogyny/misandry too. I remember a chainsaw wielding woman serial killer. She killed only men. .. or any vaginitis dentata movie. If we want it balanced... I suppose gender in horror films is my preference, but I'm not sure how much of a re-write that is for the article. Fred (talk) 04:25, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
  • Comment I am a horror fan myself, though most of my favourite films in the genre predate the 1990s. Female killers were not unusual in slasher films. In Friday the 13th (1980 film), the serial killer is Pamela Voorhees, a middle-aged woman who blames campers for the death of her son. In Happy Birthday to Me (film) (1981), the killer is teenage Ann Thomerson, and the entire murder series is an elaborate revenge scheme against her half-sister Virginia "Ginny" Wainwright. (Ann is killing any other relative of Ginny, Ginny's friends and classmates, and framing Ginny for all the murders.) In Sleepaway Camp (1983), the killer is teenager Angela Baker. Although there is a final twist that the real Angela is long dead and her brother Peter Baker has been impersonating her for 8 years(!). In Psycho II (film) (1983), the real killer is not Norman Bates (who is framed for most of the murders) but Emma Spool, a stranger claiming to be his biological mother. In Halloween 4: The Return of Michael Myers (1988), Jamie Lloyd is the niece of Michael Myers and is stalked by her uncle. By the end of the film, Jamie turns into a copycat killer and murders her foster mother Darlene Carruthers. And so on. Dimadick (talk) 05:46, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Problems in this article

This article should probably be completely rewritten to comply with NPOV and other policies. It focuses only on American horror films, highly generalizes the entire genre, and cherry-picks sources that describe horror films that conform to the article's views. I'll list a few examples of quite obvious NPOV issues: the article generalizes horror films saying they promote the idea of "...motherhood as something society is taught to be disgusted with feeding into this patriarchal world.", "Both the hero and the monster are dependent on the female body whilst taking part of the patriarchal world and degrading women. The monsters in horror films try to hide their sexual frustration by masking their identity and human self.", "A phallic weapon, such as a sword or gun, takes on masculine characteristics, even in the hands of a monster, or a woman." (this bit is even unsourced), "The audience relates only with masculinity and disdains femininity...They gaze back at the audiences' who are unsuccessful in hiding their own sexual desires.", and on the American bit, "While misogyny abounds in horror films, so too does a sexism rooted in the colonial traditions of North America." It's far from encyclopedic, and requires a rewrite to maintain a neutral point of view that, instead of drawing from chosen articles as fact, represents the wide view of opinions that exist about this topic. Vermont (talk) 03:16, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

As commented previously on IRC, I agree, the article really needs a complete revamp in order to comply with NPOV. In my opinion it should classify for deletion, but the previous discussion is honored. I'm changing the template to multiple issues for now. agucova 03:20, 30 June 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Agucova (talk • contribs)

"...motherhood as something society is taught to be disgusted with" Is it relevant that several male villains in horror films are depicted as having unhealthy relations with their mothers?:

• Norman Bates committed matricide. He suffers from dissociative identity disorder, and his secondary personality manifests as his own interpretation of his dead mother's personality. In effect, he impersonates his mother.
• Michael Myers. Given no actual motivatin for his actions in the original film, depicted as an abused child in the 2007 remake. In the sequel of the remake, his murder spree is motivated by a recurring vision of his dead mother summoning him home. Which may or may not be a hallucination.
• Jason Voorhees. Described as a "psychotic mama's boy", whose original murders were motivated in avenging his mother's death. (Overlooking that his mother was a serial killer who was killed in a fight with an intended victim). He keeps his mother's decapitated head in a makeshift shrine, and in part continues his mother's obsessive campaign to keep Camp Crystal Lake shut down. While mostly depicted as mute, a flashback scene includes his only speaking line and it is addressed to his mother: "Mommy, please don't let me drown!"
• Freddy Krueger. The son of a nurse who was gang-raped by a group of mental patients. His hatred of humans in general was hinted in the 5th film to be based on his hatred of the mother who rejected and abandoned him. Dimadick (talk) 14:27, 2 July 2019 (UTC)