Talk:List of plants with symbolism

Merge?

The present content of this article could well be merged with Language of flowers. However, "Plant symbolism" suggests a broader concept than the meaning of flowers. For example, the maple leaf as a symbol of Canada might fall under "Plant symbolism", but not "Language of flowers". This article could really use some expansion, exploring the various ways plants may be symbolically important. Plantdrew (talk) 04:07, 18 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What on earth is a berrirose.

And why does no mention of it exist anywhere else on the internet except on fanfiction websites? 165.154.120.84 (talk) 05:04, 11 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Good catch. Not a real plant. Removed it. Plantdrew (talk) 15:39, 11 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding Lettuce

Can we lock this page to registered users so people quit putting down lettuce on the page? That meme needs to die. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nungimelheshin (talk • contribs) 12:27, 9 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thoughts on adding meaning origins

I noticed when reading this article that for many of the flowers, the source of the meaning is not present. There are a few that say the meaning is from Shakespeare or Japan or China, but most seem to be from the Victorian language of flowers or what the flower is associated with in the Western world. I think the article would benefit from the addition of this information, and I see two main ways to incorporate it.
First, the meanings and their origins could be divided by the plant/flower: the tables would remain as they are, and each meaning would also include its origin, either in the same box or in another column (like in the table for plants). This way, all the meanings for a specific plant/flower would be together, even if they had different origins. Alternatively, the plants/flowers and their meanings could be divided by origin: there would be different sections for each region or culture, each containing a table of the plants/flowers and their meanings in that region or culture. I presume the flower table was made into two columns to keep it from being extremely long, and this option could help with that by splitting it into multiple shorter tables. Hanakotoba, Japanese flower symbolism, already has its own article, but with this option, it could be made into a section in this article.
I also like the point Plantdrew made about "Plant symbolism" including meanings outside of the language of flowers, and I think there is room for more of that here. I think the maple leaf as a symbol of Canada is a good example. One that comes to mind for me is the associations of lilies with death— a consequence of them being used for funerals. If the page were organized by plant/flower, this would go with the other meanings of lilies, but if the page was divided into sections by culture/region, I'm not entirely sure where it would go. As far as I know, it is not associated with any specific area or culture. Maybe there could be a Miscellaneous/General section?
Thanks for reading all of that, please let me know what you think!
(Apologies for any mistakes I may have made in posting this, I am a longtime Wikipedia reader but quite new to contributing.)
Finleykitten (talk) 23:06, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We should add a notice at the top.

We should put a note at the top that says ‘This is a dynamic article, it can never have every plant, feel free to add more,’ etc. I see that on some articles where it makes sense and not on other articles where it would make sense. Please and thank you! 98.97.35.11 (talk) 18:03, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 20:20, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! 98.97.33.196 (talk) 23:12, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ideas for things we could add

Could we have multiple tables, organized like in the List of companion plants article? And each table would have plants from a specific continent, and four columns: Common name, scientific name, symbolism to the indigenous people of whatever continent the table represents, and worldwide symbolism.

And for plants we could add, I think mustard, fireweed, onion, wheat, watercress, and butterfly bush.

Please and thank you! 98.97.35.11 (talk) 03:38, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Abatina

The Abatina is a flower that is referenced Kate Greenaway's Flower Language, but has not proven to exist, so I have added a reference that says so, I am new to this so please feel free to change the reference to be more legible. Jo-king06 (talk) 04:29, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Scientific names

Would it be viable to add scientific names to the table for some plants, because there has been more than one occasion while I've been editing that the same plant was on the list more than once because the sources being used listed the plant under different common names from one another. Possibly change the table to be Scientific name | common name(s) | symbolism? CavalierQueen (talk) 04:42, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Black Dahlia - Betrayal and dishonesty: No such flower, no such meaning?

The list includes "Black Dahlia", as a link to Dahlia coccinea, and lists a meaning of "Betrayal and dishonesty". This appears to be a misinterpretation, as "Black Dahlia" commonly refers to Black Dahlia. The Dahlia coccinea is a red dahlia. I also can't find any references to any sort of dahlia that carries a meaning of "betrayal and dishonesty".

The list entry was originally added in 2016,[1] with the title "Red Dahlia". (The user who originally added it seems to be dormant since 2018.) It was been changed in 2020 from "red dahlia" to "black dahlia" by an anonymous user.[2]

I'm trying to find sources for the "betrayal and dishonesty" entry. This was referred to as a meaning for dahlias (in general, not specifically the Dahlia coccinea) in fiction: it came up in an offhanded comment in the Agatha Christie short story, "The Four Suspects". ^[1]

I'm specifically looking for sources that predate the 2016 Wikipedia edit, since I don't want articles that used Wikipedia as their source. My local library's books about the language of flowers are checked out at the moment. I could find a few online sources, all of which gave the meaning as "instability", ^[2] ^[3] ^[4] or didn't have any entry at all. ^[5] The references given in the "dahlia" entry for the current version provide the listed meanings for dahlias in general, but none of them mention any specific dahlia species, or give a meaning of "betrayal and dishonesty".

Does anybody have any citations for the entry of "black dahlia" (or possibly "red dahlia") meaning "betrayal and dishonesty"? If not, I'll delete the entry. Piquan (talk) 02:05, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Piquan:, changing red dahlia to black dahlia seems like straight up vandalism. Given the lack of sources for "betrayal and dishonesty", I think you should just delete the entry. Plantdrew (talk) 17:02, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Christie, Agatha (July 1932). "The Four Suspects". The Thirteen Problems. United Kingdom: Collins Crime Club. LCCN 32021693. OCLC 10406782. OL 6278212M.
^ Adams, H.G. (1858). The language and poetry of flowers. New York: Derby & Jackson. supplement, p19. LCCN 08002778. OCLC 1499315. OL 7091826M.
^ Greenaway, Kate (1978) [Reprint of the 1884 ed. published by G. Routledge, London, omitting the section, "Poetry on flowers"]. Kate Greenaway's Language of Flowers. New York: Gramercy Publishing Corporation. p. 15. ISBN 0517261820. LCCN 78014346. OL 4726550M.
^ Routledge, G. & sons (1888). The artistic language of flowers. Leipzig: Meissner & Buch. p. 15. OCLC 2421999. OL 24187514M.
^ Heilmeyer, Marina (2001-04-01). The language of flowers: symbols and myths. Munich: Prestel Publishing. p. 94. ISBN 3791323962. LCCN 00104156. OL 18728784M.

[1] Christie, Agatha (July 1932). "The Four Suspects". The Thirteen Problems. United Kingdom: Collins Crime Club. LCCN 32021693. OCLC 10406782. OL 6278212M.

[2] Adams, H.G. (1858). The language and poetry of flowers. New York: Derby & Jackson. supplement, p19. LCCN 08002778. OCLC 1499315. OL 7091826M.

[3] Greenaway, Kate (1978) [Reprint of the 1884 ed. published by G. Routledge, London, omitting the section, "Poetry on flowers"]. Kate Greenaway's Language of Flowers. New York: Gramercy Publishing Corporation. p. 15. ISBN 0517261820. LCCN 78014346. OL 4726550M.

[4] Routledge, G. & sons (1888). The artistic language of flowers. Leipzig: Meissner & Buch. p. 15. OCLC 2421999. OL 24187514M.

[5] Heilmeyer, Marina (2001-04-01). The language of flowers: symbols and myths. Munich: Prestel Publishing. p. 94. ISBN 3791323962. LCCN 00104156. OL 18728784M.

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