Talk:Placebo (band)/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Shaidar cuebiyar (talk · contribs) 23:40, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Starting the review

I was about to give an automatic fail on the basis of Criterion 1, specifically a poor Lead, which at 88 words is woefully inadequate for a main text of some 16,000 characters. Clearly it does not summarise the rest of the article. However, I will be going through each of the criteria in order and hope that the nominator and interested editors vastly improve the Lead. When going through the criteria I reserve the right to return to earlier comments/sections and revise/add to them until the review is finished. Unless otherwise indicated, maintain existing wikilinks and formatting. The review process should take about a week. If needed I will allow an additional week for any requested changes to be made before making my decision.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:40, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Check toolbox at right: currently some five or so dead links.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:43, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

I've finished my review and will place the GA review on hold for one week, from this date stamp, to allow changes to be made.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:15, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

The nominator started fixing the article per discussion but stopped on 7 July with no particular explanation other than the last edit summary referring to nominator's own insertion and subsequent deletion of 'nowiki' templates.

Unfortunately many of the comments have not been acted on. Specifically the Lead is still woefully inadequate. Other problems with prose clarity and matter of style remain. Many of the article's claims rely on primary sources, unreliable ones or are unsourced. Some of these become original research without reliable sources. The article is not broad enough, more information is needed: of their impact on the continental European market is needed (including in the Lead), about the roles of other members besides Molko, discussion about Musical characteristics and lyrics (rather than a data-hoard), and significant touring/session musician (who co-writes their material) should be specifically mentioned in main text. Conversely, there's too much detail on Battle for the Sun and not enough on Sleeping with Ghosts.

The article has failed this nomination.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 22:56, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

A good article is—

Criterion 1

1. Well-written:
1. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct; and
2. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.

Hatnote

1. the '70s jazz-fusion > the 1970s jazz-fusion
2. Move template: {{Use dmy dates|date=August 2010}} to this area.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:06, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Infobox

1. Keep |alt = Also consider adding a suitable text explanation to broaden image usage.
2. Fix | caption = From left to right: [[Brian Molko]], [[Stefan Olsdal]], [[Steve Forrest (musician)|Steve Forrest]], [[Bologna]], November 2009 'performing live' is a given and hence unnecessary.
3. Fix |website = {{URL|placeboworld.co.uk}}
4. Adjust past_members : list chronologically.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:40, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Lead

1. Read comments above under 'Starting the review'.
2. Delink London
3. guitarist-bassist
4. The band were soon
5. who was later replaced by > who was replaced in 1996 by Precision
6. Hewitt left the band in October > Hewitt left in October Redundant
7. Placebo are known for their > Placebo utilise
8. androgynous image and musical content > androgynous images and lyrical content
9. Update :To date, they have released six studio albums
10. top 20 > top 20 (Check wikicode for non-breaking space: use similar as appropriate throughout article).
11. First use of UK should be United Kingdom
12. Figures as of July 2009 are "nearly 12 million albums" (stress mine). More updating needed.

History

Formation (1994–1995)

1. I'd like to see article title in first sentence of each section, e.g. Placebo founding mainstays, Brian Molko and Stefan Olsdal had both Note: wikilinked for first appearance in main text.
2. Compare this but did not cross paths properly until 1994 in London, England with "but they didn't cross paths properly until 1994 in London, England" The latter was written by Greg Prato for Allmusic (see current refs [57] & [65]). A lot of this article uses material from his review but he is largely unacknowledged – two brief tags occur: one for a genre and one for a band influence – this may constitute copyright violations. Check the entire article and acknowledge Prato throughout, whenever using direct quotes or close paraphrasing. If too much of the article is by Prato (or any other unacknowledged sources) then it is an automatic fail on Criterion 1a.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:24, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
3. Explain playing mostly on toy instruments
4. Although instrumentation was given in Lead there's no mention here.
5. Genre for Ashtray Heart?
6. Molko had some experience playing with Specify their connection: name the band or other association.
7. making him the ideal choice This is puffery: provide NPOV.
8. London band Breed Why is London specified? Since Ashtray Heart was formed in London this location is default, better to give a genre e.g. fellow alternative rockers, or local alternative rockers or similar. If they were in a band together before Ashtray Heart/Placebo then this should be in the infobox for associated_acts
9. Trim This led Robert Schultzberg to assume the position of drummer
10. where they'd played > where they had played Other than direct quotes, avoid contractions.
11. together in a band. Name the group, give genre, specify when. If band name is found then it should also appear in infobox under associated_acts
12. Trim The name "Placebo", Olsdal remarked in an MTV interview, was chosen because of its Latin origins;[2] "placebo" literally translates from Latin as "I will please". > Olsdal remarked in an MTV interview, that "placebo" was chosen because of its Latin origins;[2] when translated as "I will please".
13. Trim though Olsdal claims this was not the original motivation for naming the band "Placebo". Reduce repetitious material.
14. Trim When asked about naming a band, Molko said: Likewise.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:31, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Debut album, lineup change and glam connection (1996–1998)

1. line-up or line upshaidar cuebiyar (talk) 19:11, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
2. was released on 16 July 1996
3. and was a major success, Puffery. Delete this and leave the charting position so readers can make up their own minds as to whether this is 'major", or other success. If applicable you can mention that this is their highest charting position, as of June 2013. However make sure you have a good reference for this (see Criterion 2).shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:59, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
4. Adjust ¶¶, combine short ones.
5. Expand/explain their most popular being "Nancy Boy" What is this claim based on?
6. The chronology in ¶2 seems to overlap with previous section with 1995 content. Also check the tense of the expression.
7. Tension with Schultzberg began to rise When? From the context of the previous sentences, this "Tension" starts after the album was issued (in July 1996). But the next sentence gives the idea that it was at least a year earlier. Based on the rest of the ¶2, consider Tensions between Schultzberg and the rest of the group had begun to rise in the previous year or similar.
8. Avoid euphemisms e.g. initially let him go in > initially fired him in
9. Delete , right before doing their first TV show, Unnecessary detail, see also Criterion 3b. Find similar statement and delete/trim them.
10. Molko decided that it would be best for the band if Schultzberg left > Molko felt that it would be better if Schultzberg left
11. Trim But Schultzberg suggested playing together until they finished the promotion of their first album, Placebo, and the band accepted.
12. ¶3 repeats some to the information from earlier, trim this down.
13. "Nulle Part Aillleurs" > Nulle Part Ailleurs or Nulle part ailleurs An explanation for casual reader is needed e.g. , a French TV showshaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:15, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
14. and the [[The Smiths|Smiths]] cover > and [[The Smiths]] cover23:05, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
15. In the same year, however, they were able to convince > Late that year they convinced
16. to return to Placebo as their full-time drummer Was Hewitt their full-time drummer previously? From my reading of: "only play on occasional demos", Hewitt was not a band member at that time. This needs clarification both in the previous section and here.
17. Placebo had opened several
18. he had heard a demo
19. Reword Bowie also invited the trio to play at his 50th birthday at New York's Madison Square Garden in 1997 e.g. In the following January Bowie invited them to play at his 50th birthday celebrations at New York's Madison Square Gardenshaidar cuebiyar (talk) 19:15, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
20. Delete luminaries such as as puffery.
21. Modify The band also had minor roles in the film do you mean Band members also had minor roles in the film or The band appeared in a minor role in the film or other?shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 19:15, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
22. When did Bowie appear on-stage with them?
23. Fix pipe "[[Without You I'm Nothing (Placebo song)|Without You I'm Nothing]]" > "[[Without You I'm Nothing (song)|Without You I'm Nothing]]" Avoid redirects.
24. Clarify last two sentences in ¶5.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 19:11, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Without You I'm Nothing and Black Market Music (1998–2002)

1. I see User:J Milburn has deleted the album cover from this section. I was going to mention this, both here and at Criterion 6. Likewise his edit summary and the newly added template warn of possible other instances of image violations including an over-long audio sample. If these issues are not appropriately dealt with, the GAN will be failed.
2. initially appeared to be the group's breakthrough in the US market Incorrect when talking about the album. For the single, "Pure Morning", where did it chart on the Billboard Hot 100?
3. but subsequent singles and videos failed to match the success of its predecessor Exactly what success is being talked about? Acclaim on US MTV? No specific chart success has been given. UK chart success for albums was subsequently matched or exceeded, whereas relative success of videos is hard to measure. Overall this needs clarification and specifying type of success being discussed.
4. The first two singles from Without You I'm Nothing, "You Don't Care About Us" and "Pure Morning", were the peak of their British success Reorder singles chronologically. Instead of British use UK. Validity of statement is challenged by charting of earlier single, "Nancy Boy". If we're talking about album charting then there are four subsequent ones which made the UK top 10.
5. , who, on occasion, have > , which, on occasion, has Exemplify at least two of these.
6. Reduce puffery: has retained a huge popular and critical following in continental Europe
7. I enjoy the alliteration, but fluent French frontman, France is misleading. I assume you mean Molko? Do you mean he speaks fluent French with an English accent? Or is he fluent in accented English and from France/French descent? His heritage/language skills should be specified earlier (in Formation) especially if it is regularly mentioned in regards to their chart success in continental Europe and France, specifically.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:15, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
8. Clarify their first target market
9. Reduce puffery: gaining a huge popularity there,
10. Clarify even in excess of their British fan base.
11. Is outside of their tense rock sound, a quote? If so, add marks and direct ref. Sounds like Prato is being used again.
12. released in the US United States has already been used in main text, US can be used.
13. Avoid imprecision album spawned additional, find a better word than 'spawned', even though Prato likes it. Note that ref [11] is actually Prato quoted by MTV: use original source.
14. Quantify the hits, e.g. top 20 and supply an Official Chart Company ref.
15. Time span needed for sentence starting with The song was released in Australia as
16. Trim sentence starting with At the time the band claimed
17. For two-CD formats do you mean double-CD formats, or something else?
18. Check ¶5: unacknowledged material.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:24, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Sleeping with Ghosts and Once More with Feeling (2003–2005)

1. This section seems thin compared with others. Combine short ¶¶ into one, or expand by use of additional relevant material with proper acknowledgement.
2. Avoid hemisphere-specific terms i.e. In spring 2003, Placebo released > In early 2003, Placebo released or In April 2003, Placebo released, modify similar occurrences elsewhere.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:06, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
3. first live concert DVD > first live DVD Note: delink DVD.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:06, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
4. Trim, remove redundancy: The footage was recorded in October 2003 during a concert performed in Paris, France. The DVD also includes a 25-minute documentary
5. Remove redundancy: included their biggest UK hits and two new tracks > included two new tracks Being a compilation and given its subtitle the excluded phrase is unnecessary.
6. That same year, they played Give the month.
7. last UK gig until 2006 Likewise.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:25, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
8. on the Once More with Feeling Tour to South No italics for tour name.
9. Delete in France: unnecessary given content of brackets.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:50, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Meds and lineup change (2006–2009)

1. Adjust caption Molko and Olsdal at [[Coachella Valley Music and Arts Festival|Coachella Festival]] in April 2007. [[Steve Hewitt]] and most of his drum kit are out of view.
2. line up or line-up but match previous.
3. In September 2005, Placebo finished the
4. Trim The first single on the new album to be released in the UK > The lead single in the UK market
5. However, "Song to Say Goodbye" was the first single in other markets
6. Concision Two songs, recorded on the album, feature duets with American singers > Two tracks are duets with US singers
7. Avoid double full stops with R.E.M.'s Michael Stipe. Maintain wikilinks.
8. Frenchman Dimitri Tikovoi who mixed select songs on Once More with Feeling produced Placebo's > Dimitri Tikovoi, who had mixed selected tracks on Once More with Feeling, produced Placebo's
9. Combine and trim first two sentences of ¶2.
10. Explain in fewer words: It was projected by the band's record label to potentially cause a very dangerous loss of profit upon the album's release.
11. Trim the album debuted relatively well > the album charted well More sample countries needed, certainly France and any other No. 1.
12. Combine & trim last two sentences of ¶2.
13. In ¶3 wikilink "Running Up that Hill". First appearance is wikilinked not second or subsequent. Also pipe link to Palcebo version.
14. Combine and trim ¶¶4 & 5. Give month(s) of Projket tour, and pipe link to 2007 version. Give month of EP release but delete track listing: it is available in the EP's article. Move the cover Kate Bush's to ¶3.
15. Trim On 1 October 2007, Steve Hewitt left Placebo. Brian Molko commented, "B > On 1 October 2007, Hewitt left Placebo and Molko commented, "[b]
16. Mind punctuation at end of quotes, e.g. so to speak".
17. In August 2008, the band acquired new drummer Steve Forrest > In August 2008, the band announced their new drummer, [[Steve Forrest (musician)|Steve Forrest]] wikilink first appearance in main text. Add some of Forrest's antecedents for Criterion 3.
18. Hewitt went on to form his own band > Early in 2008 Hewitt founded an alternative rock band,
19. Modify next sentence, start with In August 2012 he
20. Combine ¶¶7 & 8. Expansion/explanation required, status of Placebo Limited Edition Box Set &/or Placebo – The Hut Recordings should be clarified here for Criterion 3.
21. Weren't they working/recording their next album from August?shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:50, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Battle for the Sun (2009–2011)

1. Modify caption Forrest with Placebo in Bologna, in November 2009.
2. More ¶ work needed: combine short ones/trim longer ones.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:29, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
3. Delink Canada, available at Toronto if needed.
4. Any previous notable work by Bottrill as a producer (give no more than three)?shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:50, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
5. Clarify (or reposition) sentence starting with On the same day, Do you mean same day as radio debut of title track or same day as free download? If latter then specify.
6. Trim performing some of the material from the album Delete tracks played: this can be put on the album's article.
7. Add quote marks wrote "the new album is a heavier-sounding record compared to its predecessor" and
8. Avoid close paraphrasing: reword ¶2 last sentence.
9. Modify caption Molko in November 2009, [[Lyon]]
10. from 12:00am GMT on 21 April 2009 > from 12:00am GMT the following day
11. Trim Placebo went on to perform three concerts > Placebo went performed three concerts
12. United Kingdom > UK
13. at relatively intimate venues in > at venues in
14. before departing to the 2009 summer festival season in > before attending the festival season in
15. Clarify Unveiling the new album > When unveiling the new album
16. MoS, fix italics: Scottish News of the World's A-Listed magazine > {{Scottish edition of ''[[News of the World]]''}}
17. Note Zimbio ref used to verify the quote is virtually identical to wikipedia article.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:29, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
18. Fix punctuation at end of quotes, e.g. the world".
19. ¶5 Delete first sentence: a website back in 2009 in not notable. Combine the next two sentences.
20. Combine ¶¶6 & 7.
21. Remove puffery: Placebo's largest gig ever
22. Clarify, remove puffery of sentence starting with All Placebo concerts have not been
23. of the last album's Redux Edition > of the album's redux edition De-link, album has been linked earlier.
24. Combine and trim last two ¶¶.
25. Delink 2nd Brixton Academy.

2012 tour and B3 EP (2012–2013)

1. Section is too thin, could be combined with next section.
2. Wikilink [[Sundance Film Festival|Sundance Film and Music Festival]]
3. Rock im Pott Festival
4. The band have played a string of concerts, all of them in Europe, from April to September 2012. > From April to September 2012 they played a string of European concerts.
5. Update information and tense of ¶2. A lot of the dates & expected releases can be removed as no longer relevant.

Loud Like Love (2013–present)

1. Section is too thin, combine with previous section.
2. Combine short ¶¶.
3. Reword statements like The band will play the to The band are expected play the or similar.
4. Check currency of Istanbul Calling festival, some concerts were cancelled in June (see here)

Musical characteristics and lyrics

1. Barely more than a listing of genres, then influences. No real discussion nor explanation of the development of their sound.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:45, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
2. De-link pre-linked terms including glam rock, alternative rock and Britpop. (There may be others)
3. Some commentary by the critics themselves illustrating two or three of the other genres who help make this more interesting and informative.
4. De-link pre-linked terms including David Bowie, The Cure, The Smashing Pumpkins and The Smiths. (There may be others)
5. Exemplify with two or three examples: many references to drugs and LGBT themes
6. Trim he admitted at one point thatshaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:05, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Members

1. Brian Molko – > Brian Molko – (Check wikicode for non-breaking space).
2. [[bass guitar|bass]] > [[bass guitar]], and any bass > bass guitar
3. <small>(since 1994)</small> > <small>(1994–present)</small>shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:07, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
4. Note that Hewitt is given as a member in 1994 but this is not clear in the main text.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:05, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

There are numerous problems in the article at the moment. Hopefully they can be addressed.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:15, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Unfortunately much of the comments have not been acted on. Specifically the Lead is still woefully inadequate. Other problems with prose clarity and matter of style remain. The article has failed this criterion.shaidar cuebiyar (talk)

Criterion 2

2. Verifiable with no original research:
1. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline;
2. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose); and
3. it contains no original research.

References

I will be checking all the references and each numbered comment below is related to the ref's number as it existed at this time. The order in the article may change from this numbering as refs get moved, added or deleted.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:53, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

1. The statement have sold over 12 million records worldwide is not supported by the ref. The source says "It sold nearly 12 million albums," – not over 12 million (as of July 2009 – not up-to-date). Note that this claim is according to the band's management & is not, in itself, reliable either. As for the ref itself, it requires a publisher; also fix page number and give full title. As for earlier part of statement I don't see any indication of UK charting of six albums into top 20. However I hope this is supported later in the article by Official Chart Company ref(s).
2. Ref's url goes to generic MTV site. Using wayback machine I find this, which seems to be a fan blog posted by 'Girls Gone Punk' aka 'Shaia and Lisa'. Explain how this is a [source]. If reliability can be established you will need to re-do the ref plate: fix title, add authors, add publisher, add archiveurl & archivedate. As for verifying content, at 2b: he discusses its Latin origin but describes renaming Ashtray Heart: "when 'Placebo' came along we thought that was a more concise name. 3 syllables. It had a good rhythm to it. You can imagine 40 thousand people screaming [...] You see the thing about band names is you find a name that sounds cool". This is re-iterated by similar statement from Molko in the ref [4] quote.
   1. The two formed Ashtray Heart, a lo-fi duo, playing mostly on toy instruments. Verify and exemplify 'toy instruments'
   2. Verify Molko had some experience playing with Steve Hewitt,
   3. Verify signed its contract with Caroline Records
3. Provide courtesy url e.g. here, adjust pages. Note: does not support claim of both attending Sigtuna boarding school, only mentions they were in a band in Sweden.
4. Explain how this is a reliable source. If reliability can be established then provide a Cite AV media template rather than cite web, with a specific entry at time= Full publisher required; add name of up loader. Who is the interviewer? Which program is he being interviewed for? My Turkish is non-existent so I can't tell what questions are being posed. The quote in this article is not an accurate transcript of Molko's response: it leaves out numerous vocalisations (e.g. uhm, err, really) He should be quoted more accurately.
   1. Verify was released 16 July 1996
   2. Verify peaking at No. 5 on the UK Albums Chart Use an Official Chart Company ref.
   3. Verify & explain how popularity was determined: most popular being "Nancy Boy".
5. Explain how this is a reliable source. Sounds like a fan forum citing another unnamed (?) source. If the original source can be found and is reliable then the material can be used. Currently the content is not verified. If you can redeem the content it would be important to indicate that this is Schultzberg's version of events, even the statement that Molko has said that he was "tired of being the focus of Robert's rages against the world" would have to be reworded as According to Schultzberg "Molko said that he was 'tired of being the focus of Robert's rages against the world' and quite frankly, I was tired of being his" Otherwise it is not an accurate reflection of the situation.
6. Check page no. Note: this source does not give Hewitt as a founder in 1994.
7. Official website? Use sparingly. Not reliable for a tour with Bowie: provided a reliable secondary source. Name of tour not shown.
   1. Verify Bowie also invited the trio to play at his 50th birthday at New York's Madison Square Garden in 1997.
8. Fix title: remove NY Rock. This is the website but it should not be italicised and should be wikilinked. The content re attendees from Corgan to Reed is verified, but no mention of Placebo playing here.
   1. Verify The band also had minor roles in the film.
9. Give full name of publisher. Fix title (ends with NYC Show, the rest is other content). Verifies content of their track appearing on the Velvet Goldmine soundtrack but not that the group appeared on screen. Some other content is verified but album with a duet containing both Molko and Bowie is not.
10. Give full publisher. Both pages. Provides support for cameo in film, Velvet Goldmine , as glam rockers. Does not verify but subsequent singles and videos failed to match the success of its predecessor
11. Use original source of Greg Prato at Allmusic not this mirror. Combine with other uses of Prato, also provide tabs at other unacknowledged uses of Prato. However avoid close paraphrasing or overly citing from Prato in the article.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:53, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
12. Add author, publisher. Doesn't verify content: another ref is needed.
13. Explain how this is a reliable source. In any case, url points to front page of book, so it is difficult to see where it supports content. Supply a page no. for each tab. Content not verified.
    1. Rest of ¶ and next one have no refs. In particular, verify Their style altered ... and wailing distorted guitars. Good articles have no original research.
14. Finally an Official Charts Company ref. It should be used for all UK charting: all six studio albums, 2004 compilation, and any top 20 singles. As for the ref's formatting, move Official Charts Company to publisher, trim title.
15. Official website is not reliable for album sales. Provide a more reliable secondary source for this claim.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:58, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
    1. Verify content in subsection: Sleeping with Ghosts and Once More with Feeling (2003–2005) from Australian tour dates to in France (see Live 8 concert, Paris).
16. When using Cite:album-notes, either wikilink title or provide url but not both. Explain how discogs is a reliable source. The current url points to the single version with Mosshart. At a it does not support claim that this version is on the album. At b it does not support claims about Tikovoi.
17. Use cite news template. Supply publisher. Source verifies The Kills and Stipe but Mosshart is given as VV.
18. Explain how this is a reliable source. Content not reliably verified.
19. Australian charts peak for Meds is verified. However if you adapt the ref it can be used for all top 50 Australian albums and singles: <ref name="AUSCharts">{{cite web |url=http://australian-charts.com/showinterpret.asp?interpret=Placebo |title=Discography Placebo |last=Hung |first=Steffen |publisher=Hung Medien (Steffen Hung). Australian Charts Portal |accessdate=2 July 2013 }}</ref>
20. Why not use ref [14]? UK Charting verified.
    1. Verify content from The second single from Meds was "Infra-Red". to 2007's Projekt: Revolution tour.
21. Use cite news template; trim title; add publisher; add author. Placebo not mentioned here.
22. Use Template:Allmusic. Fix title, Allmusic not italics, fix publisher: add (Rovi Corporation) after AllRovi.
23. Official website. Find a reliable secondary source for this quote. Criterion 4: What does Hewitt say?
24. Official website. Fix template, may need an archiveurl (see here). Can be used to give name of new drummer.
25. Explain how this is a reliable source. Content not reliably verified.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:16, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
26. Official website. A reliable secondary source would be better.
27. Use cite news template; trim title; full author first name (the B is for Bernard); remove website and add authorlink=[[Bernard Van Isacker]] |work=[[Side-Line]] |publisher=Séba Dolimont Verifies content & can be used for next sentence too.
28. Use cite news; trim title; add publisher. Verifies content.
29. See previous, content is supported but seem trivial: see Criterion 3b.
30. Official website. A reliable secondary source would be better. Current url points to 'Page not found'. Content not verified.
31. Trim title: start with Hottest Record – Placebo Move BBC to publisher.
32. Use cite news template; trim title; add publisher. Ref verifies next sentence.
33. Official website. A reliable secondary source would be better. Current url points to 'Page not found'. Content not verified.
34. This is a copy violation. The site does not acknowledge wikipedia. Zimbio article is dated April 2010, but see wikipedia article history here at Battle for the Sun (2009-present) section. This shows substantially the same content in December the previous year. In any case, this ref can't be used to verify this article.
35. Add details for off line source: page, date, author, publisher. I could find no archive copy at Wayback Machine. Direct quote not verified.
36. Use cite news template; trim title; add publisher. Content not entirely verified: no indication of limit to number of listens. Previous sentences not verified.
37. Use cite news; trim title; move Reuters to agency; add publisher. Content verified.
38. Per [22]. Source claims release date of album is 15 July 2009 not December 2009 as in article. Another reliable source is needed for this discrepancy.
39. Official website. A reliable secondary source is needed for whole paragraph. Current url points to 'Page not found'. Content not verified.
40. Explain how this is a reliable source. Content not verified. Without a better ref the whole segment is to be removed.
    1. Verify sentence starting with The last shows of the tour
41. Official website. A reliable secondary source is needed. Content not verified.
42. Official website. A reliable secondary source is needed. Content not verified. When was it recorded?
43. Official website. A reliable secondary source is needed. Content not verified. Did they actually perform? Is there a review?
44. Official website. A reliable secondary source is needed. Content not verified. Did they actually perform? Is there a review? Did they support Red Hot Chili Peppers or vice versa?
45. Official website. A reliable secondary source is needed. Content not verified. Are there any reviews?
46. 'The page cannot be found' Content not verified.
47. Use cite news template; trim title; add publisher.
48. Per [4].
49. Official website. Why not use the Billboard interview mentioned on the website?
50. Official website. Usable for album title and release date but a secondary source is better for additional information, including producer name and touring schedule.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:32, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
51. Trim title; move website to publisher and add (Ryan Schreiber). Content supported.
52. Content supported. Also usable for other genres.
53. Per [22]. Content supported. Also usable for other genres.
54. Fix title; add publisher, use both pages. Content supported. Also usable for other genres.
55. Use cite news template. Supply publisher; trim title to Album Review: Placebo – ''Battle for the Sun''; add author names. Content verified.
56. Per [52]. Also usable elsewhere in article.
57. Per [22]. Content verified.
58. Add publisher. Content verified.
59. Per [51].
60. Add publisher. Note source is housed on the Official Website: is the original available?
61. Per [22]. Content verified.
62. url goes to ref [61]. Once you've got the right url: adjust template per [51].
63. Move Sputnikmusic to publisher and add (Jeremy Ferwerda). Content verified.
64. Use direct url for page no. Content verified.
65. Per [22]. See also [11]. This ref can be used elsewhere in article.
66. Per [32]. Why does title have []? For off-line source provide further details, including page no.
67. Use direct url for page no. Content verified.
68. Use direct url for page no. Content verified.
69. Add publisher, author names. Note source is housed on the Official Website: is the original available?
70. Provide original source's details per other refs housed on Official Website (unless the original is available). Use: <ref>{{cite news |url=http://www.placeboworld.co.uk/archive/selpussy.htm |title=I Thought I Was Good at Handling Pussy |work=[[Select (magazine)|Select]] |publisher=[[Emap International Limited]] |archiveurl=http://web.archive.org/web/20080324003724/http://www.placeboworld.co.uk/archive/selpussy.htm |archivedate=24 March 2008 |accessdate=3 July 2013 |date=October 1998}} Note: copy stored at Placebo Official Website.</ref> A similar note should be provided at other similar usages.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 09:52, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Sources

1. Bernhardt: its a seminar paper not a book, use Template:Cite conference. Its a translation of a German work delivered in 2005. Provide additional details: location, translator. Fix isbn: separate parts by hyphen.
2. Betts: check page no at ref[6]. Location. Fix isbn
3. Brill: location. Fix isbn
4. Thompson: location. Reorder position, alphabetically. Fix isbn
5. MobileReference: content seems to be from wikipedia articles. If so, it is not reliable. Fix isbn
6. Moore: full date of release; wikilink publisher; location. Fix isbnshaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:05, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

There are numerous problems in the article at the moment. Hopefully they can be addressed.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:15, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Many of the article's claims rely on primary sources, unreliable ones or are unsourced. Some of these become original research without reliable sources. This article has failed this criterion.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 22:56, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Criterion 3

3. Broad in its coverage:
1. it addresses the main aspects of the topic; and
2. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
1. As indicated above the Lead is woefully inadequate.
2. Where's the continental European charting of their albums? Especially No. 1s in France (four of them), Belgium (four [Walloon], two [Flemish]), Austria (two), Switzerland (two) and Germany (one). The article barely provides any charting albums other than UK and Australia. There's a few singles mentioned on the UK chart but none elsewhere. They have ten top 20 UK hits but this is not mentioned. From a wider point of view (considering other markets) what are their five (or so) best charting singles?
3. Related to the above: Any Gold, Platinum or Multi-Platinum certificates?
4. "the band have received less positive coverage from the British music press, who, on occasion, have mocked the perceived pretension of frontman Molko". Exemplify with specific comments. Any contrary opinions? Any non-UK praise by contrast? How did this affect their reception with fans or charting?
5. Compare information on Sleeping with Ghostsor Once More with Feeling with that on Meds or Battle for the Sun. Where is the balance? Sleeping with Ghosts is described with two brief sentences: released & charted. Similar poor description for Once More with Feeling. Whereas Meds receives a reasonable description with two ¶¶. The treatment for Battle for the Sun, however, is overwhelming: from January 2009 to December 2009 it spans eight ¶¶! It is far too detailed with trivial information: trim it back to about what Meds has. Beef up Sleeping with Ghosts and Once More with Feeling to a Meds standard.
6. Musical characteristics and lyrics: I expected to see significant discussion of the development of their styles not a data-hoard of genres and influences. Explanation of the impact of the influences is not given. Concentrate on three to five of the most important genres and give specific comments from the critics on each. Likewise with influences. The section contains some of the best references for the article but are squandered on a single genre or influence without any detail.
7. Further to the above, who writes their material? Specific songwriters needed including lyrics and music separately if reliably known. Development/inspiration for notable tracks should be given.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:17, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
8. Lead currently states "Placebo are known for their androgynous image and musical content". I expected to have this exemplified here. Instead we have "Lyrically, Placebo's music contains many references to drugs and LGBT themes" but there are no examples of lyrics that substantiate the claims. Some details of Molko's drug use is given but the correlation to their music and lyrics is not shown. No indication of 'androgynous image', other than mention in Lead and claim quoted here, the article has not enough description to support the category of the group as being LGBT-themed.
9. Formation: as indicated earlier if Molko & Hewitt "had some experience playing" together before Ashtray Heart then this should be expanded. Likewise if Schultzberg & Olsdal "played together in a band" this should be expanded. If Hewitt was actually a member of Ashtray Heart/Placebo in 1994 this should be specifically stated: current impression is that he was a session musician to "play on occasional demos". Molko's "English-accented fluent French" background should be described here, as it is relevant to the band's popularity in continental Europe. Any similar background for other members can be provided if they're regularly commented on by reviewers.
10. Bill Lloyd: a touring member since 1998, session musician/technical personnel on some albums, but he is not mentioned in main text. Any other significant recurring contributor should be mentioned. A photo of Lloyd is available at PlaceboWilliamLloydBologna2009.jpg but it will need to be cropped if used in this article.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:56, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

There are numerous problems in the article at the moment. Hopefully they can be addressed.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:15, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

The article is not broad enough, more information is needed: their impact on the continental European market (including in the Lead), expand on the roles of other members besides Molko, discussion about Musical characteristics and lyrics (rather than a data-hoard), and significant touring/session musician (who co-writes their material) should be specifically described in main text. Conversely, there's too much detail on Battle for the Sun and not enough on Sleeping with Ghosts.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 22:56, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Criterion 4

4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
1. Schultzberg vs Molko: both sides of the on-going tension should be given without editorial interference. As mentioned earlier (see ref[5]) in Criterion 2), the article currently provides the impression of giving Molko's PoV when it is Schultzberg's commentary being quoted (via a dubious fan site/blog). What did Molko actually say/do? How did Olsdal react? Are there any contemporary accounts of these tensions (rather than 10 years later with the benefit of hindsight)?shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:11, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
2. Schultzberg's contributions to the group's early work extended beyond playing drums: he is credited with co-writing much of the material for their debut album including five singles. Some acknowledgement of his wider importance should be in the article.
3. Hewitt left: we have a comment by Molko but none from Hewitt: what were his reasons for leaving? Anything from Olsdal? More importantly there's no indication of Hewitt's legacy from his 11/12 years with the group. From this article his impact appears to be minimal: basically he played drums. Elucidate how he contributed to their sound, image and influence. Although not widely acknowledged on wikipedia's articles he was credited as a songwriter on the majority of their works during his time with the group. From his later work, he was capable as a singer and guitarist: did this present any friction within Placebo?
4. As indicated above the article focusses too much on Battle for the Sun and not enough on Sleeping with Ghosts.
5. As a founding mainstay Olsdal gets very little mention after the debut album. Elucidate how he contributed to Placebo's later sound, image and influence.
6. Both Forrest and Lloyd (see above) are co-credited as songwriters on latter Placebo material, some acknowledgement is needed in the article.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:05, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

There are numerous problems in the article at the moment. Hopefully they can be addressed.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:15, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Further balanced representation of various members and albums could be achieved.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 22:56, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Criterion 5

5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
Article seems to be stable, further changes are expected due to suggestions from this review. This criterion is passed.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:07, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Acceptable.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 22:56, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Criterion 6

6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
1. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content; and
2. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
1. As indicated above in Criterion 1, the captions for the photos in the article can be improved.
2. Although not necessary for GA consider adding alt text content to enhance experience for more readers.
3. Audio file of "Pure Morning" is currently 31 s long, the track is about 4:00 min long and, according to MoS:Music samples, it should be 24 s or less. Furthermore the quality should be about 64 kbit/s, whereas this sample is 151 kbit/s. Consequently a shorter and lower quality sample is to be provided, or the sample removed, or the article will fail GA.
4. Consider using further free photo images available at Wikimedia Commons. Some of those need to be trimmed and the watermark obscured/removed if they're to be used in this article.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:07, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

There is a significant problem with the audio sample in the article at the moment. Hopefully this can be addressed.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:15, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Audio sample suitably modified. This criterion is satisfied.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 22:56, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Final decision

As indicated insufficient work has be made, specifically on the Lead, prose, original research and non-neutral content. Refer to specific criteria above. This article has not passed GAN.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 22:56, 11 July 2013 (UTC)