Talk:Pirate Party of Greece

To: The Wikipedia Foundation

The entry[1] contains information which is the product of original research, has not been previously published, or checked by experts. If this is not the case, then please cite the sources which support the views expressed in the entry. Otherwise, please remove everything that arises from the editor’s personal opinion or his or her novel research. The entry presents certain events and views with an evident bias, and with a lack of balance in relation to their relative importance.

[1] http://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Κόμμα_Πειρατών_Ελλάδας

and also in the following:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piratenpartei_Griechenlands

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party_of_Greece

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parti_pirate_(Grèce)

As the Pirate Party of Greece, we believe that Wikipedia should not be a place of argument (after all there’s space elsewhere for squabbles), but of encyclopedic facts only.We regret that some editors hold these views on our Party, but we would ask that the rules you have set as a community be kept. By no means do we wish to censor. We only request that Wikipedia’s basic rules are respected.

The Steering Committee

The Pirate Party of Greece

• This page is for talking about the English version of the article, which does seem to have referenced statements. Are there any statements in particular in this page that you want to discuss? Each Wikipedia language project runs independently, so posting here will not assist with de, fr and el versions. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 23:27, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

The references in question have been removed from the current article so not really.Thank you anyway.

Warlordei — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:214B:8205:2600:41FA:2651:E90A:E81A (talk) 23:39, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Dear Administrators please protect this thread. The deletion of the name of the founder member is politically motivated. There are numerous sources that confirm this. Among other things, the Greek Wikipedia entry is highly accurate and detailed. There, Mr. Mariotti is confirmed as the founder of the party.PressFreeNet (talk) 20:41, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

The only political motivation is from your side. There is no founder member. The only two sources to claim this are 2 interviews that this person gave to the german press (in german), in which he presented his false story. Of course he would not dare to state his claims in the Greek press where the rest of the founding members would see. Stop Vandalising wikipedia. You also mention the Greek article in wikipedia which has a clear warning that the content there is wrong (after you have vandalised it).

Also you have deleted the number of members of the party. And instead you write 25(!). Where did you find this number? It is the third time that you delete the correct number. Administrators please ban him if he does it again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.92.72.201 (talk) 21:59, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

"And instead you write 25(!). Where did you find this number?" => maybe TYPO ?;-) Fraulakaramela (talk) 07:19, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Article protected

I have now temporarily protected this article due to the ongoing edit war. Wikipedia is based on finding consensus where disputed sources and dubious edits occur. I encourage all involved parties in this content dispute to discuss it here on this talk page. Please present reliable sources for either of your claims. Preferably these should be in English but German or Greek sources are equally valid if they are reliable and verifiable. If in doubt you may ask univolved editors from Category:User el or Category:User de to check the sources and translate some indicative quotations. But the current situation of reverting the article back and forth is anything else than desirable.

Last but not least, to any involved editors affiliated with the Pirate Party: Please read about having a conflict of interest. De728631 (talk) 20:18, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 01 June 2014

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 11:01, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

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Pirate Party of Greece → Pirate Party (Greece) – Unifying titles of pirate parties in various countries. Can't move the article myself; article is blocked due to an unrelated content dispute. — JFG ^talk 06:18, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

• Oppose, the present name is the exact translation of the name Κόμμα Πειρατών Ελλάδας, an is the one featured in English in the party's own website. Constantine ✍ 07:53, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose. Unifying the titles of articles of pirate parties is a good idea but it should be with "Pirate Party of ..." titles (Category:Pirate parties). Coreyemotela (talk) 20:21, 4 June 2014 (UTC).
• oppose The proposed name is so little used that there is no redirect yet. so don't move it. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 21:26, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose The official name used in the party's website is Pirate Party of Greece. The party's official name in Greek is Κόμμα Πειρατών Ελλάδας which would be translated in English as Pirate's Party of Greece. The party itself uses the designation of Greece in its title and IMO it's proper to keep the article the way it is. Apart from this the page for their Swedish counterparts is named Pirate Party of Sweden and not Pirate Party (Sweden), even though their official name in Swedish is Piratpartiet, translating as Pirate Party, and doesn't have a country designation (of Sweden or Swedish).Hansi667 (talk) 09:25, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Protected edit request on 4 July 2014

If you want to leave a version of the page locked, please leave an unbiased version by removing antibaskin's controversial edits. The current state of the article is antibaskin's propaganda. Wikipedia is not a propaganda tool.

The following is Antibaskin's personal opinion and has no place in this article. "Due to the extensive censorship[6][7] that is practiced in the party by an undemocratic lobby , only 20-25 active members remain.[8] A new pirate party is planned. The new pirate party focus both in pirate principles and in direct democracy, and hopes to represent all disapointed pirates that left.[9]"

Also, he is correct that 800 members is not the correct number of members, the most recent calculation is 1165 (http://www.pirateparty.gr/get-involved).

Opanoseimai (talk) 07:57, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

The number of 1165 members is inaccurate. It is a forgotten number, somewhere in the pirateparty web page. This number is the total number of citizens that used to be party's members. But today very few of them have paid their annual subscription, in order to have voting righs. Also the number 1165 is not an official number stated by the Steering Committee of greek pirates. Also according to party's statute , the 2/3 of the members are required in order to have an electoral cooperation. Recently the pirates cooperated in the european elections with Ecologist Greens. And do you know how many approved this electoral cooperation? 34 members only!!! Antibaskin (talk) 18:13, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

I'd like to remind both of you that in such cases we should rely on third-party reports. Are there any recent media reports in Greece about the current number of members? De728631 (talk) 18:33, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit protected}} template. There is useful discussion going on here, but there is currently no agreement on the number or reliable sources backing of either position. As such, I'm disabling the request until consensus can be reached. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 22:09, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

The number of 1165 members has a date 17/05/2014 next to it so it is clearly not a forgotten number. It is the official number of members up to that date ( https://www.pirateparty.gr/get-involved/ ), which is quite recent by the way. Also the paragraph "Due to the extensive censorship[6][7] that is practiced in the party by an undemocratic lobby" is Antibaskin's personal opinion. Also the claim that a new pirate party is planned due to this is completely false. The fake party that Antibaskin is promoting has extreme censorship (no comments allowed on its web pages unless they are approved) and has no respect of direct democracy (the person who created it is well known for his undemocratic behaviour in the pirate movement). Has thus failed to collect 200 signatures to become a party (one and half year now) regardless of Antibaskin's consistent propaganda in wikipedia (greek,english,french,german) and elsewhere and regardless of all the spam emails that have been sent from the creators of this false party. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Opanoseimai (talk • contribs) 19:42, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

The number of members of the party is defined by those who have paid their annual subscription. The subscription fee is 12 euro, so the real number of members can be extracted by https://www.pirateparty.gr/finance/. If you look there , you will notice that the accurate number of members is about 20-30. Antibaskin (talk) 05:55, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

No it clearly is not defined by that. The fee is optional. It is stated clearly on article 3 of the party statutes https://www.pirateparty.gr/katastatiko-pirate-party-greece/. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Opanoseimai (talk • contribs) 12:27, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

The fee is not optional. It is totaly mandatory. Because if you dont pay the annual fee, you have no voting rights, thus and you are not allowed to participate in the party's decisions and politics. Those who dont pay the annual fee, they are expelled practically from the party. Antibaskin (talk) 15:49, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

You are very wrong. You might have no voting rights for that year but this doesn't stop you from being an active party member, participate in the members section of the party forum, have access in the party's project management tools, have access in the party member's mailing lists, participate in party actions etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Opanoseimai (talk • contribs) 17:59, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

This is in theory. In practice nobody (who didnt pay his/her annual fee) participates in that scheme. Because others, with their vote, command him/her what to do. Thats why the active members of the party are about 20-30, and the rest 1000 members have left long ago . Antibaskin (talk) 04:52, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

That is once more in your mind. And this is your major flaw. You tend to write things that are only based on your flawed assumptions. Remember that this is an encyclopaedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Opanoseimai (talk • contribs) 06:40, 18 July 2014 (UTC)