Talk:Photoflood

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	This article was accepted from this draft on 16 September 2019 by reviewer DGG (talk · contribs).

There are many references to photoflood from photography related articles that are now redlinks. It would be very useful to get this article out of draft. I believe the 250W and 500W versions are commonly called Number 1 and 2, respectively. They are also available blue colored to increase the color temperature close to daylight color. It is not hard to find links to ones for sale, I didn't yet find ones to manufacturer web sites or catalogs. I would make the table indicate lumens/watt, instead of equivalent watts, and add a conventional 100W lamp for comparison purposes. There are still tungsten (photoflood) balanced films available for sale, commonly for 3200K or 3400K color temperature. Gah4 (talk) 22:54, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

OK, many of the references were not yet links but some of them now are. This article does need more references, though. Gah4 (talk) 23:26, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I just realized that this draft was created in the UK. The lumen and lumen/watt values are different for 120V and 230V lamps. That might mean two tables. Gah4 (talk) 23:34, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

old table

Watts	Lumens	Equivalent watts (compared to 100 watt bulb)(Note 1)	Colour temperature (K)	Avg. Life (hours)
250	8500	650	3500^[1]	3
500	17,800	1370	2900^[2]	8

Note 1:For comparison purposes a 100 watt general lighting service bulb emits a little over 1300 lumens(at 230 volts) or 1700 lumens as 120 volts.^[3]

References

two tables

For technical reasons, 120V and 240V lamps are different. (Different filament diameter or lengths.) Finding comparable lamps, though, with good references, isn't so easy. The 120V 100W lamp is a 5 inch globe lamp, as ordinary ones aren't sold anymore. There might be better comparisons, though. There are rough service lamps, for example. One reference said 2900K for the 500W 240V lamp, which I believe is wrong. When I found the one that is there now, the life was longer. It would be nice to find all 3400K (a popular value for color film) lamps. Gah4 (talk) 19:12, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

100 watt lamps

Since ordinary 100W lamps are not sold in the US, it was hard to find a reference for one. The closest one I found is the one listed. There should be old catalogs or otherwise with the appropriate old lamp. Gah4 (talk) 22:42, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that rough service lamps are designed for 130V, so not the right comparison. Gah4 (talk) 22:48, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Gah4: 'Rough service' lamps are indeed operated at a lower temperature so that the filament has a better chance of survival. I believe that the US 120V, 75W GLS lamp has a very similar lumen output to the UK 240V 100W lamp. Since, I presume that this can be easily sourced, why not give that as a comparison? 86.152.235.99 (talk) 14:21, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I got one from an old GE catalog from some web site. I actually have a paper catalog from some years ago. Gah4 (talk) 15:29, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I had to look up GLS, as I have never known it used here. It seems that the usual 120V 100W lamp is 750 hours, while you note that the 240V ones are 1000 hours. So a little different temperature and lumen output. Gah4 (talk) 20:04, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

GLS: General Lighting Service. In other words a bog standard filament lamp as opposed to any other type. 86.164.61.122 (talk) 14:29, 22 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I found that out after a web search, but I had never heard it before. Is that a UK term? My first thought was that it was an ANSI lamp code, which are usually three letters, and there are codes for some photoflood lamps. I thought about adding them to the table, but didn't do it yet. Gah4 (talk) 14:39, 22 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that it is just a marketing term to identify run of the mill light bulbs of the type that you are likely to put in your out house. 86.164.61.122 (talk) 17:49, 22 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

3400

It seems that the 230V 500W lamp I found is 3200K, unlike the others. That gives it lower lumens and longer life. It would be nice to have a 3400K to make the comparison right. Gah4 (talk) 23:06, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Gah4: Various photographic references give the colour temperature of the No.1 photoflood as 3,500K and the No.2 as 3,200K (on both sides of the Atlantic which makes sense as the film manufacturers did not make different film for the US and the rest of the world). The Philips data gives the nominal lives as 2hrs and 5hrs respectively (commensurate with the diffing colour temperature though the actual life would change very drastically with small changes in colour temperature and the US 120V lamps would, of course, last longer - nominally 3Hrs would seem to be in the right ball park, but 10hrs seems a bit long). The big problem is that referencing from different sources will vary because of the tolerances in manufacturing. The Satco reference in particular, quoting 1,203 Lumens is interesting because there is no way a lamp can be constructed to give such an exact light output. Even plus or minus 50 Lumens would be a challenge. However, another issue with that reference is that 230V filament bulbs are not and never have been sold in Europe. Bulbs are 240V in the UK (and a few other countries) and 220V in the rest of Europe as that is the actual mains voltage. The oft quoted 230V is only a nominal value with a stated tolerance (+/- 10%) that encompasses all the actual voltages encountered. Nearly all electrical goods can be made to operate off the wide voltage range specified, but not filament lamps.

The article might benefit from a note that the figures given are 'typical' values because it would not be difficult to dig up alternate references that change the provided data. 86.152.235.99 (talk) 14:41, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that films come in Type A (3400K) and Type B (3200K).^[1] As far as I know, both come in both temperatures. (In addition to blue colored ones for daylight balance.) I understand the 220/230/240 question, but don't know what to do about it. For properly designed lamps, operated at the design voltage, the difference between 220V and 240V is probably small enough not to worry about. 120V lamps are very different, with much thicker filament. It was not so easy to find appropriate references. There is also Type F film for clear flash bulbs. Vericolor Type L seems to be 3200K. Ektachrome 160T (EPT) seems to be 3200K. The 1203 lumens might be converting from a round number in another unit system. Gah4 (talk) 15:26, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Digging out my many filters and the translation of what they do, gives a different interpretation. I was suspicious when your list suggested that the suffix letter identified the light source or film, but this is information from a reseller so does not have the backing of an authoritative source. A big clue is that the correct filter for modern (if it can be called modern) type A film under daylight is the 95B not the 95A. The 95A was for earlier examples of type A film (most notably early Kodachrome film in its 10 ASA and 25 ASA versions). The list also only addresses movie film which has different characteristics to negative film (and different characteristics to reversal film for slides). And there was also type G daylight film which required its own filter for use under artificial lighting (80D or 80E depending on exact type).

There was no numbering convention, filter numbers were created in random order. Also, the A, B and C (D, E, F etc.) suffix meant nothing beyond an alteration of characteristic from a previous filter. The suffixes are most often used with colour temperature altering filters as film and lighting sources evolved, but not always. One example of an exception occurs in the trio 12, 32 and 44 (respectively yellow, magenta and cyan). However, for medical imaging purposes the 44 had too much UV absorption, so a 44A was produced with passed more UV (this was required where certain dyes were required to fluoresce). The skylight filter also progressed from a 1 to a 1A and to a 1B as improvements were made to its characteristics.

However, having said that: this isn't an article on photographic filters and which ones to use under specific lighting conditions. 86.152.235.99 (talk) 18:32, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I think that the filter letters are unrelated to film types. I am not so sure about improvements, but just later. I looked up the films, remembering that there were 3200K and 3400K, but not remembering which was which. There are both, and so both types of lamps. Still, we might find better references for temperature, lumens, and life. Gah4 (talk) 19:55, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "Camera lens filter types". www.freestylephoto.biz. Retrieved 20 November 2019.

verification

I don't know why only one is in the photoflood section. I matched them up by the ANSI code, which is on page 27, to get the characteristics. There are many references that will tell you that those ANSI codes are photofloods. I presume ANSI will tell you that, but I don't know how to ask them. Gah4 (talk) 15:56, 25 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

[1] 275W colour temp

[2] 500W colour temp

[3] Watts comparison

[filtertypes-4] "Camera lens filter types". www.freestylephoto.biz. Retrieved 20 November 2019.

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