Talk:Philip Taylor Kramer/Archive 1

Archive 1

Nov 8 revert

The anonymous editor needs at the bare minimum to put their thinking-cap on. For example: if all the witchy-UFO stuff is true, how can the date of death be known? The most level thing to write is that the death date is not known. The anonymous revert is clearly not thinking, just reverting.... Bill 21:50, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Occultist editor

Is it just a coincident that an occultist, in the form of Bill Thayer who is an astrologer, took offense with this article tried to get it erased and then removed every sign of the New Age and occult aspects from this article? I don't think so. Askiser

Oboy, you don't understand me, I fear — which is fair nuff, how well can one get to know people online? I am most certainly not an occultist!

Let's start with astrology first; I have a very balanced and uncertain position.

In favour of astrology: I have studied astrology in fair depth, and know how to cast a chart, and have a small library of astrological works. I by and large do not believe in astrology as a predictive system, while at the same time acknowledging — because I've done some statistical studies, some of which proved out (others did not) — that some correlations exist.

At the same time I think many scientists show narrow-mindedness and arrogance when confronted with the fact of astrology, that they don't use their own scientific method, which consists in first looking at the facts before them, then starting to figure out things.

Against astrology: I agree almost 100% with the recent added link to the astrology page — put up by someone who got it from an atheist site (and no, I'm no atheist either) — that the "astrological method" is not satisfactory, at least presented scientifically, and that anyone who says that astrology is a science, and that they know how and why it works, is either an ignorant person, a fool, or a crook. The 8 criteria in that article are excellent (as far as they go).

My own position is somewhere in the area that some people have the gift of using astrology as a sort of crystal ball to let their own inner intuition loose — something along the line of Carl Jung's preface to the Baines translation of the I Ching; and that there seem to be some few astrological correlations that work, and no one knows why.

Finally, astrology has been used for so long that it is impossible to understand much of ancient and medieval literature, and some of ancient and medieval art, without reference to astrology. Thus, it is a useful tool, like Latin, ancient Greek, etc. A cultured person knows something about astrology.

As for the other stuff — all the New Age crap, the crystals, the space-alien abductions, the ouija boards, demons, spiritualism, mediums, faster-than-light spacecraft, communication with the dead, it's both silly and diseased: a quick ticket to the crazyhouse.

In the matter at hand, though, absolutely none of this came into play. The man was found dead. We don't know why. Occam's Razor prompts us to look for simple explanations before far-fetched ones. — Bill 00:39, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Why are you SO interested in my contributions Bill?

One has to wonder why Bill you seem so interested in this article on a dead rock n' roller that you have admitted knowing nothing about. You popped up again as having been editing this article on my watch list and frankly I can't understand why. You have totally ruined it. And it now contains errors. Kramer and his father were working on faster than light communications, not travel, that's just stupid.

All the information contained in the article that I originally wrote came from material in articles on the internet. I also have read articles and watched the Unsolved Mystery episodes. I kept track of the story from when it was reported years ago. By your own admission you weren't aware of the story and thought it was a joke. You are not up on rock music either, remember?

Until you prove that the referenced articles are not true then the information from those linked articles should be allowed. Who says that Peter Olsen was really half an alien? It has been recorded that he believes he was, the article that states this is linked, maybe you should read it. Pitchka 22:34, Nov 8, 2004 (UTC)

I couldn't care less about your contributions. If I were, for example, I'd have said something about your obscene screen-name, which does grate on me, to the people who don't like such things and apparently pursue people who use offensive handles. No, I committed the mistake of looking thru Newpages for about 3 weeks running: since you're stalking me you might as well do it right and see the trail all laid out on Vfd.... Anyhoo, it doesn't take knowing about rock music (or not) to judge that nonsense about half-aliens doesn't belong in something that means to be a serious encyclopedia; if the same nonsense had been written about Jesus Christ (for which after all there might be some plausible argument) or Einstein or anyone else, I'd react the same way.

When I found Wikipedia, I thought it was neat, but the more I see of it, the more I realize it's doomed to be not quite at the lowest common denominator, but only a step or two above. Not worth the energy. Do what you want.

VfD debate

For the vfd debate relating to this article see Talk:Philip Taylor Kramer/delete -- Graham ☺ | Talk 00:47, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Cleanup

I stumbled across this article, was appalled at its PoV and re-wrote it. Some ex-rocker and defense worker raised a lot of money during the dot com boom in California, couldn't turn a profit, got a little funny in the head, thought maybe he'd outflanked Einstein's thinking on the speed of light, thought he was talking to extra-terrestrials, got paranoid, didn't know how to handle a visiting investor and drove off the edge of a canyon. Four years later a couple of photographers looking for snaps of dreamy old car wrecks found the bones. Welcome to the Hotel California. Wyss 22:09, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Ronz STOP IT

Just stop with your childish behavior, linking to Philip Taylor Kramer's company is within the context of this article, it is his company and his life's work. STOP with your HARASSMENT and STALKING!--Editor5435 (talk) 05:05, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Woa, what's with all the yelling? I don't think generally we should be linking to company web sites unless they are notable. If they are notable they should have their own article not be a side note for this poor gentleman. Perhaps start a Total Multimedia Inc. article, Editor5435? He's notable because of the mystery of his death and his band, not because the company is notable as far as I can tell. Nonetheless, I found a way to link to their web site as a specific reference to their initial development claim. So it supports a fact and isn't just promotional. Hopefully that is a workable compromise for you. - Owlmonkey (talk) 01:20, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I see there is a lot of recent discussion on other pages and previous incarnations of a company article that were deleted. The Maxim article, though it's odd to cite an magazine like Maxim for this perhaps, has much more to say about the company and their management. Not sure it's worth adding any of the additional details here though unless it's cited in more places. Maxim found the use of a mystic and new age philosophy for company decisions notable but that notability was perhaps primarily because of their readership. I don't see much elsewhere about the company except some news items in the 90's related to his disappearance, a couple press releases, and some more press releases in the last year. No real discussion about the company by third parties though. - Owlmonkey (talk) 02:07, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

The mystery of Kramer's death revolves around his work with Total Multimedia Inc., not anything to do with Iron Butterfly, so this is why the company is included in this article. Kramer did co-found TMM with Randy Jackson by the way, it was previously called The Randy Jackson Entertainment Corporation. I am trying to get the name of the company's secretary who was found dead within 48 hours of Kramer's disappearance, it should make for an interesting side note, especially how she died. Peter Olson, a former executive at IBM and MCI was president of the company that the time. Olson, a follower of the The Celestine Prophecy was convinced Kramer was the 10th insight which resulted in all sorts of bizarre events. There was a radio interview with Kramer's father which he described the meaning behind Kramer's last statement of "I’m going to kill myself. And I want everyone to know O.J. Simpson is innocent. They did it.". The interview is replayed occasionally, it would be very interesting to get a transcript. Kramer's father claimed the OJ reference is to some business associates who believed OJ was innocent, a clue leading to perhaps what happened to Kramer. Also, some people claim Kramer was distraught over Total Multimedia's financial matters which is not true. The company was well off because of Olson's MCI links and Kramer was ecstatic over a breakthrough he recently made in his work. After Kramer's disappearance all of Total Multimedia's hard drives were wiped clean and according to SEC records MCI entered into a $36 million contract with Iterated, the company Kramer/TMM was working with to develop fractal video compression. There is still more, but you can see the relevance of Total Multimedia to this article.--Editor5435 (talk) 09:22, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Archive 1