Talk:Phencyclidine/Archive 1

Archive 1

dosage citation?

"Moderate doses (5-10 mg intranasal, or 0.01-0.02 mg/kg intramuscular or intravenous)"

The dosages I've seen mentioned seem to be somewhat varied. Not many web-accessible sources mention dosage at all. I'm curious as to whether anyone has a web-accessible source for the statement above.

FYI: My interest lies in comparisons of experimental dosages in animals with recreational dosages. It seems that experimental dosages are running more than 100 times higher than the dosage cited here.

Rbogle (talk) 19:32, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

history as a schedule II drug

Can anyone explain why PCP is classified as a schedule II drug and not a schedule I drug since it seems there are no valid medical uses of the drug, either here or in the article? I realize that it could conceivably be used as an analgesic, but with such great side effects, I couldn't imagine a physician prescribing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.234.215.110 (talk) 08:54, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I am staring at the code of federal regulations right now. This is a Schedule I. The confusion might be that two precursors are listed as Schedule II, so a simple text search could be misleading. I will change. 66.166.38.18 (talk) 22:06, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I just noted the banner on the right states Schedule II/Class A. Is this meant for the US or some other country? It is Schedule I in the US, but don't want to remove information that might be valid elsewhere. 66.166.38.18 (talk) 22:12, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Ignore EVERYTHING I said above I'm an idiot. I was reading the regulation wrong. Sorry. Reverting now.... 66.166.38.18 (talk) 22:28, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

cardiac arrest

"In some cases, usage can result in sudden cardiac failure days after even a single use." I would really love to know if this Giannini character has any verified instances of this happening, because it sounds like bullshit to me (like much of the "information" about PCP around. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.176.108.132 (talk) 06:13, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

portmanteau?

the very first sentence in parantheses states that the word phencyclidine is a portmanteau, which is untrue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.158.104.63 (talk) 06:14, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

who the fuck is insisting some elaborate explanation for how its name is derived from phencyclidine, its not a portmanteau nor is it a "complex clip" its just a standard abbreviation, it should just read Phencyclidine (often abbreviated as PCP) end of story do you link "complex clip" at PEA for phenethylamine or any of the 1000 other chems?

Terminator

Mabye I am not reading it correctly, but the Terminator was a robot, and that's why he could punch through glass without feeling it, not because of Phencyclidine use

yes but the cops Thought that's way he chould punch through glass Joeyjojo 04:34, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Rarest Substance?

>>The drug is mentioned far more than it is actually encountered, being one of the rarest scheduled substances (second to extracted purified mescaline).<<

What's about DMT is it not rare?

Its rare too, but nothing near as rare as "extracted mescaline".

PCP is by no means a "rare" drug in Montreal, Canada, thats for sure. It is usually sold cheaply, in cut powder form. Also, PCP is most commonly referred to as "mesc" on the streets of montreal, which tends to lead to much confusion. As such, in Montreal, many people tend to equate PCP and Mescaline (which IS very rare in Montreal)as the same substance. Morphine 18:56, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm inclined to agree, there are drugs so rare and esoteric that almost nobody know they exist.24.65.95.239 (talk) 02:33, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

npov

i've eliminated the "dangerous drugs" comment as well as the "rarest drug" comment. neither have been cited and plenty of time has been given. in my own experience, neither dmt, extracted mescaline, or pcp or particularly rare, but pcp is certainly the least rare of these three- not that my own experience means anything here, but just read the article, its a common inner city drug of abuse. --Heah (talk) 19:15, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

"but pcp is certainly the least rare of these three- not that my own experience means anything here, but just read the article, its a common inner city drug of abuse. --Heah (talk) 19:15, 21 May 2005 (UTC)"

No but it ISNT a common inner city drug of abuse, you are feeding into the propaganda. The amount of abuse of PCP is mythological.

PCP isn't as common as it once was. But in late 70s, PCP was used by about 15% of all 12th graders. This gradely dropped down to about 3-5% which is actually about the level LSD is at.

Use as veterinarian anaesthetic

David Taylor, the "Zoo Vet" (he wrote a number of books on his experience as veterinarian for exotic animals and is a noted specialist of the care of marine mammals) reports that when the first hypodermic needle handguns appeared (a tremendous improvement for him), they were used with Phencyclidine as an anaesthetic (actually, what was needed was a drug capable of "knocking out" angry, dangerous mammals). He said that low doses of phencyclidine were found to induce erotic dreams in humans (and thus it could be validly suspected that they did the same to large primates such as chimpanzees). He also once used this compound on a zebra, but when the zebra was coming out of anaesthesia, it apparently had terrible nightmares and Taylor decided to never use this compound again on a zebra or other equine animal. He however mentions that the drugs worked well with bears. For the zebra, he had to wait for drugs such as xylazine and etorphine.

I think we need more about the use of phencyclidine as an anaesthetic. I hesitate before copying the above from Taylor (his books are full of funny anecdotes, but he does not explain the matters in very detailed scientific facts or give statistics). Also, I'm no medical or veterinarian doctor (but could perhaps look in databases of medical or veterinarian articles if necessary). However, I think that it would be interesting to mention this usage, the side effects it produced etc.

David.Monniaux 05:43, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Dead link

The DEA link is dead 145.18.154.166 13:09, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Removed the DEA link 146.50.208.168 00:55, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Police and Firefighters

I adaded a little blurb about the way cops and firefighters talk about ppeople on PCP. I've heard some crazy stories, but don't know whether or not they can be substantiated, which is why I put it into the myth section. I think a section elaborating on the relationship between police and firefighters on the one hand and PCP as this drug that makes people into these superhuman demons on the other might be an interesting addition to the article. By the way, is it true that PCP is really localized to DC and LA? Shaggorama 13:56, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

PCP can also be found on the streets of Chicago and New York. In Chicago it is called "Wicked", "Wicked Sticks", and "Happy Sticks" (Moore Cigarettes dipped in PCP). In New York, it is known as "Leaf" (Mint Leaves) and "Angel Dust".

In Kansas City, MO it is called "Water".

The superhuman demon theory is true. It happens to certain individuals who are already violent without PCP. The PCP magnifies the problems of the individual, and he reacts...sometimes by destroying everything in sight. Others are simply trying to find their way back into this world.

Use as an adulterant

what is the likelihood of powdered PCP being used as an adulterant in other drugs, for example ecstasy? i have encountered a belief out there that LSD is often adulterated with PCP. is this simply layman's mythology? Morphine 18:45, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

On tabs there's no room for adulterants. Even if PCP were on an LSD tab it would be so little as to do nothing. It could be sold as E though.

This is a personal account, but i tested a pill once that contained PCP and ephedra, non-quantitaded but man that was an odd experience.

"Trends" is maybe unfixable.

"" PCP use is extremely prevalent in the Metro Washington DC area, especially in Prince George's County, Maryland and Southeast DC. In the Washington, DC area, it is often referred to as a dipper (cigarette dipped in PCP). PCP production is centered in the greater Los Angeles metropolitan area. Los Angeles-based street gangs, primarily the Crips, continue to distribute PCP to many cities in the United States using their cocaine trafficking operations. These gangs pose a particular problem due to their propensity for violence. During the late 1980s and early 1990s, the widespread availability and use of crack cocaine displaced demand for PCP. More recently, however, reporting suggests that PCP abuse is increasing slightly in many cities, as some crack addicts return to the use of this drug. For instance, the DEA Portland District Office reports a resurgence in the popularity of liquid PCP, also known as "sherm", among Portland area gangs. California street gangs reportedly are responsible for the reemergence of PCP in the Pacific Northwest. On the east coast it is only found in nyc. Mainly sold in Harlem is often distibuted throughout the five boroughs. Treated cigarettes, which have a yellow tint caused by the liquid PCP [called dips], were first observed on the street in 1996, costing between $15 and $20 each. The DEA Philadelphia Field Division also reports that PCP was available readily in the region in 1998. The DEA seized three clandestine PCP laboratories in 2004. ""

There are so many problems here I don't know where to begin. There are no citations. Says production is centered in LA -- I doubt PCP made in LA is supplying East-coast markets; even if it is I doubt very much street gangs like the Crips are responsible. 'Poses a particular problem' is a value judgement. 'Only found in nyc' contradicts the first two sentences, and the widely-documented use of "wet" in the Philadelphia area. 'Mainly sold in Harlem' is a fragment. 'Dips' are described twice. Oh right, now it's in Philadelphia. The last sentence is unclear -- were the labs also in Philadelphia? If so, this contradicts the 'out of LA' theory. Plus, the whole thing is U.S.-centric. Which is not surprising considering the evident mentality of the authors responsible. --CKL

Yes indeed that is the biggest mess I have ever read.--Metalhead94 (talk) 12:03, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

sign! ¡ ¿ [[ %7e%7e%7e%7e ]]

< http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Phencyclidine&diff=77951811&oldid=72058427 >;

< http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Phencyclidine&diff=77807771&oldid=77807442 >.

hopiakuta ; [[ <nowiki> </nowiki> { [[%c2%a1]] [[%c2%bf]] [[ %7e%7e%7e%7e ]] } ;]] 01:31, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Not an accurate edit:

• Tupac Shakur mentions PCP in his song "I Ain't Mad at Ya" - "...standin' on the block, wit ya glock, trippin' off sherm..." (As noted above, "sherm" is a slang name for PCP.)

edit:

--no thats slang for cocaine stupid -- -- STP

What are you on about kook, that shits slang for angel dust.

"...As noted above,..."

hopiakuta ; [[ <nowiki> </nowiki> { [[%c2%a1]] [[%c2%bf]] [[ %7e%7e%7e%7e ]] } ;]] 01:31, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

"In popular culture"

I compacted the "in popular culture" section into a single paragraph; it was beginning to turn into an indiscriminate list of every single time a fictional character takes PCP and something wacky happens. Krimpet 01:43, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

You're looking at 5 to 10 mandatory

That's PCP. Phencyclidine. Angel dust. You ever seen what this stuff does to kids? 64.109.251.85 20:23, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

PHARMACODYNAMICS

Guys, NMDA receptors (ionosphoros) are all over the brain. Glutamate is one of most important excitatory neurotransmitter in the CNS along with aspartate. Glutamate is an agonist of NMDA receptors. PCP is an "open-channel" agonist of the NMDA receptor. So, if you think about the effects of this chemical, it could NEVER be an antagonist. It just leaves the channel open and that is the reason why is a potent psychotomimetic drug.

JPO.

Sorry, you are wrong. PCP is an NMDA antagonist. Perhaps you would like to review the research?

Javitt DC. Glutamate and Schizophrenia: Phencyclidine, N-Methyl-d-Aspartate Receptors, and Dopamine-Glutamate Interactions. International Review of Neurobiology. 2007;78:69-108. "...phencyclidine (PCP) and ketamine induce psychotic symptoms and neurocognitive disturbances similar to those of schizophrenia by blocking neurotransmission at NMDA-type glutamate receptors."

Faucard R, Armand V, Heron A, Cochois V, Schwartz JC, Arrang JM. N-methyl-D-aspartate receptor antagonists enhance histamine neuron activity in rodent brain. Journal of Neurochemistry. 2006 Sep;98(5):1487-96. "The NMDA open-channel blockers phencyclidine (PCP) and MK-801..."

Try doing a PubMed search next time... Meodipt 12:18, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Neutrality dispute in "effects" section

This dispute appears to have been resolved. I'm removing the tag. If there are issues with the accuracy of the statements in that section, then affix an appropriate tag and discuss specific concerns on the talk page. TaintedMustard 04:20, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Well-known cases of effects of PCP

I'm curious as to why paragraph #2 of this diff was removed. I am suggesting reinstating it with sources as necessary. -- ricmitch 19:04, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

they're false and completely baselss. the rodney king excuse was a lie

Dangers.

Why isn't the very first section of article, "Danger", mentioning the very significant danger of psychological effects, such as drug-induced psychosis or other mental or behavioral problems? The danger of these effects of PCP (as well as other dissociatives) is at least as severe as that of Olney's lesions.--84.163.123.27 03:22, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

That section that was removed seems a bit POV, it was probably removed for that reason. --Dandaman32 22:35, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Link spam

The two links at the bottom of the External Links section look like spam, and I'm tagging them as such. If someone gets time please investigate the links. --Dandaman32 22:32, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Effects

I was hoping to replace this article with a paragraph from my science book, so if I get enough feedback then I'll rewrite it.

Anyway, here it is:

Phencyclidine or PCP was developed to be used as an animal tranquilizer. However, it is now know to be an extremely unpredictable drug that can cause users to become aggressive and even commit brutal, violent crimes. Some drug experts believe that the effects of PCP are more dangerous than those of any other commonly abused drug. Many deaths have resulted from this dangerous drug. Because those who have taken PCP are often so disoriented that they cannot discern direction, pain, or danger, some have died from drowning in inches of water (they could not determine which way was up), burned to death (they could not feel pain), or walked off rooftops (the could not understand danger).

If you want to add or remove any thing, please copy it and place in bold what you think would be best to change.

66.74.230.117 (talk) 20:56, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

To 66.74.230.117

The Effects paragraph is accurate. If you want to supplement it with

Phencyclidine or PCP was developed to be used as an animal tranquilizer. However, it is now know to be an extremely unpredictable drug that can cause users to become aggressive and even commit brutal, violent crimes.

I think that is reasonable. Otherwise the content of that paragraph from your science book is a bit sensationalist. Additionally you should not delete the description of central nervous system effects of PCP because there are no comments of that type in your paragraph. Maybe the issue here is that you are describing behavioral effects of PCP with specific attention to high risk behaviors. The "Effects" paragraph as it is written goes beyond behavioral effects talking about effects on perception, cognition and motor function. So if you want to expand on behavioral effects leaving the other categories of effect intact I see no problem with that as long as you have sources. Which brings me to my last point. Science textbooks are not primary sources. The author(s) no doubt got their info from research articles. If there are references to articles at the end of the chapter then get those and read them, but a textbook is essentially a review of the existing literature, usually years out of date, and often innacurate. Hoodathunkit (talk) 00:51, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

All of that sounds WAY too biased.--Metalhead94 (talk) 12:12, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Parke-Davis patents

In one paragraph the article states that phencyclidine was patented by Parke-Davis in 1952, another paragraph says it was in 1963. This needs to be resolved. - Mark Dixon (talk) 21:28, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Poorly done studies remark

The citations after a comment critical of certain studies only link to accounts of PCP use, saying they are poorly done studies was added by somebody expressing their opinion, rather than fact.24.65.95.239 (talk) 02:31, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Removal of anecodotal account

In Canada, particularly in the provinces of Quebec and New Brunswick, PCP is commonly mistaken for mescaline (often locally called "mess" or "mesc"), although most local users are aware that the drug is not mescaline but is rather a mixture of quinine or lactose and PCP freebase. The most common form of ingesting PCP is through smoking.

What is the source of this information? I don't see a citation, and this seems far from common knowledge. Also, if this is merely based upon anecdotal accounts, it probably shouldn't be included in the article as an accepted fact. A search of the internet will not turn up any results (other than pages quoting this page, literally word for word) supporting this information. The inclusion of this text is creating misinformation.

I understand that there is a caveat, In Canada..., but we shouldn't turn a blind eye to verification standards simply because it limits the scope to a particular area that others may be unfamiliar with. Where are the Canadian PCP users when you need them to confirm something?

Quinine, as well as lactose, is used as a cutting agent for cocaine and heroin. Find me a single mention of it being used with PCP and I'll concede that this "fact" belongs in this article. (Support should not be drawn from pages quoting this page)

http://vvv.state.ct.us/dcp/PDF/dabuse.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.54.166.42 (talk) 18:24, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

"Murderous Effects While high on PCP"

The article writes: The American rapper Big Lurch murdered an acquaintance and ate her lungs while on PCP;[16] in The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat, a similarly gruesome murder is described. In May 2009, a man in Bakersfield ate his 4-year-old son's eyes and attempted to chop off his own legs with an axe while under the influence of PCP.[17]

The first citation does not indicate that Big Lurch was high on PCP. Other sources point out that he very well may have been smoking it the night before, but few articles actually seem to give any support to the notion that he was high on PCP during the incident. It would be ideal if we could find a more detailed source before making such a strong claim.

The article about the Bakersfield man suggests he "was displaying symptoms of being under the influence of PCP." Another source does not mention PCP at all, but instead that he was taking "medication, possibly for a panic attack."[1] Again, more accurate sources and clearer language should be used.

This section seems to present the view that cannibalism and murderous rampages are documented "effects" of PCP. All in all, I think this section should be removed or thoroughly cleaned up (perhaps separated from "Effects").74.15.54.158 (talk) 07:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree, the section should be deleted and I will remove it. As it is now it's just a section of trivia mentioning Big Lurch (with Liveleak as its source), a non-notable Bakersfield man (the citation doesn't even claim he was on PCP), and that another non-notable person overdosed at a music festival. None of this is encyclopedic, except possibly the Big Lurch info which should be at his own article (if there's a reliable source for it) --Surachit (talk) 11:24, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Removal in Controversy Section

In the "Controversy" section:

"During the mid 1990's, A West Virginian woman had been charged with taking off her dog's limbs with a homemade contraption similar to a guillotine. Witnesses then described a public display of the woman pulling out large chunks of her hair and forcefully stuffing the loose follicles into her husband's airway (who was under the influence of PCP), restricting his breathing to a point where he felt the need to grab a fork off the table and stab his wife to death. The man was not charged for the death of his wife."

Not only is this difficult to believe, but the source link no longer works. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.233.195.27 (talk) 08:05, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Smell

What does it smell like? —Preceding unsigned comment added by ClintJCL (talk • contribs) 00:18, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

It smells like phencyclidine... C6541 (T↔C) 18:34, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

human running speed

"The most commonly-cited types of incidents included self-mutilation of various types, breaking handcuffs (a feat reportedly requiring about 550 lbs of pressure), inflicting remarkable property damage, running at speeds of up to 40 mph in short bursts,running at 25 mph on two broken legs or ankles, and pulling one's own teeth."

Individuals on PCP have been "reported" to run at speeds of 40+ mph in short bursts. Usain Bolt can only achieve a top (average) speed of 23.5 mph on a 100m dash, for approximately 10 seconds (world record); however a top (instantaneous) speed of 27.8mph. Somehow, this speed appears to be greatly exaggerated. Should this snippet be taken out?

Source: http://speedendurance.com/2009/08/12/usain-bolt-tyson-gay-and-the-fastest-10-meter-split-recorded/

10 meters / .8s converted to mph: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=10%2F.8+m%2Fs+to+mph

User:bob1000 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.234.172.55 (talk) 03:28, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Expert

The article is self-contradictory and needs expert clarification on these matters:

• The introduction to PCP, unlike articles on other NMDA receptor antagonists such as ketamine, nitrous oxide, and dextromethorphan, describes the drug as notable for its neurotoxicity. This sounds correct, but the section on "Brain effects" mostly focuses on Olney's lesions, a potential form of neurotoxicity common to all NMDA receptor antagonists. The pharmacology section should be amended to account for PCP's reputation as a neurotoxin, or the introduction changed.
• The effects section describes hallucinations and euphoria as "infrequent" side effects of PCP. This somewhat contradicts the introduction and the section on history and medicinal use.

– Acdx (talk) 10:00, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Much of the neurotoxic effect of PCP with frequent/repeated usage may well be enhanced or even caused by the presence of 1-piperidinocyclohexanecarbonitrile (PCC); imperfect synthesis of the compound when this intermediate is employed results in contamination of the final product. Dr. Alexander Shulgin and a colleague mention this in a 1976 article for the Journal of Clinical Toxicology [A.T. Shulgin and D.E. Mac Lean, J. Clin. Toxicology 9(4), pp 553-560 (1976).]

Another excellent resource for PCP in general is Angel Dust: An Ethnographic Study of PCP Use In Four American Cities (Feldman et al.)

I am probably far from being an expert on the subject, but I have done a fair amount of research on this drug, and am in possession of quite a sizable number of resources (journal articles/books/etc). I will attempt to make and/or provide legitimately verifiable and appropriate content revision(s) and additions. This whole article is somewhat of a mess. Cosmotroniks (talk) 05:03, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

embalming fluid

it says something about embalming fluid being put on joints...because they sometimes do.

No, they don't. See Embalming chemicals. beefman 20:07, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

It's merely a slang term for Phencyclidine. 4.234.39.196 18:39, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it's merely slang. While embalming fluids are not suited for recreational use, I'm sure thousands of people have used them recreationally because of this slang term. If anyone can find an authoritative source that clarifies any of this, that would be great. 4.235.3.60 (talk) 06:03, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Is it not true that when the term "Wet" originally appeared on the scene several years ago, it was in fact actual embalming fluid? I have spoken with users. They have articulated that sometimes their high is like a combination of speed and a mild hallucinagen that makes them feel like Superman. They have also said that it is sometimes it leaves them feeling "stuck," blank and more disconnected from the world. My understanding is that the original "Wet," that was reportedly actual embalming fluid, left users with this "stuck" feeling. My thought is that they've gotten different chemicals at different times, all under the street name "Wet;" sometimes it is PCP and sometimes it is actual embalming fluid. Thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.171.9.131 (talk) 02:54, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

I added a sentence explaining the likely origin of the slang term "embalming fluid", which is from the feeling of numbness and physical dissociation. fgroover (talk) 01:54, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

It is definitely not true embalming fluid. Real embalming fluid generally contained formaldehyde in those days, which, even with incomplete combustion, the smoking of which would almost certainly yield complete blindness. Add that to the fact that angel dust was way more common than "wet" in the 70s (which is PCP usually dissolved in ether or some other highly volatile solvent, so that it evaporates off the cigarette you dip into the "wet"), and you have a veryyyy common myth. No one has ever been sold embalming fluid instead of PCP, and has lived to tell about it. Formaldehyde destroys optic nerve, not make you feel "stuck" or disconnected. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.7.233.60 (talk) 14:53, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Reference in MacGyver

In one episode of MacGyver he makes a bomb using an electric current and PCP claiming that it explodes. I'd ask Mythbusters to test this one, but I think it's out of their reach. Does PCP explode when you run electric current through it? ~~The accountless Avenger

No. PCP is not an explosive. It will burn, but that's it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.255.31.70 (talk) 07:45, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Ashy Larry

Is there any connection between this name for the drug and the character on Chapelle's Show, Ashy Larry?

Pharmacodynamics

The article doesn't say how PCP works. Can anyone add that? Especially as DXM and disassociative refer to them as "working in the same way as PCP"...

PCP is a non-competative antagonist of the N-methyl-D-aspartate class of glutamate receptors. It works by binding to a site inside the receptor pore and blocks the passage of ions when the receptor is activiated. Glutamate is a major excitatory neurotransmitter in the brain and antagonism of the NMDA receptor by PCP results in its effects. Ketamine is also an NMDA receptor antagonist and works in the much the same way, although its affinity to the binding site is about 10X less so its roughly 10X less potent then PCP.

"Drug Addict" picture

Get rid of it. It seems unecessarily "artistic" and vague. I have doubts that it's even an accurate picture and it's blurred beyond coherency to give it an air of "drugedness". As far as I can tell it's just some one laying down on the floor and the notion that it's someone who is "visibly overdosing" is preposterous because you can't discern that type of thing from an image of a person laying down. It's not giving the reader any new information and is just confusing. I'm not sure who put the picture there or what sort of message they were trying to convey but it's superfluous and unecessary. Find a clearer more reputable picture or get rid of it.

Reply to comment about police and firefighters

I work as a paramedic in a major metropolitan city in the US. Where I work, we see a tremendous amount of acute PCP intoxications. When I transport a patient under the influence of an unknown intoxicant, I will sometimes inquire with the physician or nurses treating that patient, and ask about their toxicology reports. This helps me understand what side effects a particular drug, or drug combination, might manifest.

Often, patients under the influence of PCP will have irrational behavior, extreme tendencies towards violence, cognitive disturbances, hallucinations, and as noted above, seemingly endless strength with no response to pain.

Having been physically assaulted by patients on PCP, and knowing many of my coworkers who have been severely beaten by patients on PCP, I approach any person I suspect as being under the influence of PCP with extreme caution. Physical restrain is an absolute necessity. Often times, I will have at the ready, a chemical restraint -- usually a fast-acting sedative. In some cases, this isn't sufficient, and it takes many police and paramedics to restrain the patient even for a short time.

I have heard first hand accounts from my coworkers of the insane behavior of PCP patients. One reported watching a man break his own arm in an attempt to free himself from a set of restraints at the hospital. This was shocking to me.

Patients on PCP are also victims of extreme violence. Because of their irrational and violent behavior, they agitate the wrong people, at the wrong time, and a brutal beating ensues. I have treated several patients who were under the influence of PCP but also had significant trauma at the hands of an angry crowd that grew sick and tired of their behavior.

Having seen first-hand the consequences of PCP use, I puzzle at why anyone would willingly consume such a substance. But the city never leaves me bored as there's always a good business in treating patients on PCP.

Copyright concern

User:69.205.230.182 added a note in the article-body "This whole paragraph is copied word for word from erowid." I searched via google for a half-dozen key phrases from that paragraph with site:erowid.org and also looked at the main PCP pages on that site and tried to find the key phrases via searching in my browser. I was unable to find matches, and thus I removed the tag. Obviously anyone else is welcome to try and help root out copyvio if found, and I encourage the original poster to provide more specific reference to the location of the original. DMacks (talk) 17:34, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

PCP analogues

Interesting discussion on PCP and related analogs. Nagelfar (talk) 17:06, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Addictive

Does anyone have a real source for PCP's alleged addictiveness mentioned in the introduction? In other words, a scientific paper and not a government website. A claim like that shouldn't be covered in one sentence in the introduction with no explanation or real source.

At the very least, the term psychological dependence should be used instead of addiction, which is a msleading term when used on its own. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.102.43.72 (talk) 01:37, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, no objections. It's gone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.102.43.72 (talk) 12:18, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

The fact that phencyclidine is "addictive" (i.e., produces either physical dependence or psychological dependence in human beings or other primates) is well-documented in the peer-reviewed literature. A (very) few examples: (1) Intravenous phencyclidine self-administration by rhesus monkeys leading to physical dependence, Balster RL, Woolverton WL, NIDA Res Monogr. 1979; 27:205-11. (2) Continuous-access phencyclidine self-administration by rhesus monkeys leading to physical dependence, Balster RL, Woolverton WL, Psychopharmacology (Berl). 1980; 70(1):5-10. (3) Phencyclidine (PCP): Some human studies, Pradhan, SN, Neurosci Biobehav Rev 1984; 8:493-501. SamChem7 (talk) 14:55, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Addiction:

It is entirely possible that phencyclidine possesses some mu-opioid receptor agonist effects, its relatives 3, and 4-hydroxy or methoxy PCP do. As does ketamine, and the relatively new methoxetamine. methoxetamine and 3-hydroxy-PCP in particular seem possessed of opioid effects although I myself have not tried the phencyclidine analogs to confirm. Can confirm they are present via activity guided bioassay however, in ketamine and methoxetamine, and they are well known of in 3-OH-PCP.

78.144.147.240 (talk) 15:11, 27 July 2011 (UTC)Tsathoggua

The theorized mu-opioid receptor agonist effects of methoxetamine are disputed. Certainly not scientifically proven. The NIDA is NOT a respected organization. NIDA funded studies have been repeatedly criticized for being flawed due to political pressure. I don't think politically motivated NIDA funded studies should be considered scientific, nor should they quoted in wikipedia as such. Also, can anyone find actual statistics for ER visits caused by (or involving) PCP? A PCP Myths section should be added. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.0.167.193 (talk) 18:23, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Intro is abstruse

The introductory paragraph should be comprehensible to people without specialized pharmacology knowledge. It isn't. - superβεεcat  20:56, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

"PCP exhibits both hallucinogenic and neurotoxic effects"

The text of the article doesn't substantiate the neurotoxic part of this claim, or even refutes it, as far as it apples to regular human use (I assume that is more the focus of this article than rodent use). I don't edit wikipedia regularly so I'll leave it to someone else to substantiate or remove this... --165.82.137.164 (talk) 20:13, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

"significantly more dangerous"

The article claims that PCP is significantly more dangerous than other dissociatives, but fails to back it up. The article linked merely claims that PCP intoxication (as well as Ketamine intoxication) is a good model for schizophrenia, not that the users are more likely to become schizophrenic! This model is also likely to become outdated, as schizophrenia is currently thought to be a result of multiple pathway mis-function, rather than NMDA-related polymorphism.

This entire article is very biased, and seems to be very heavily influenced by sensationalism, as seen in the subsection about violence, which refers to the popular anecdote of Big Lurch (who was quite obviously already quite violent) and to sites with stridently anti-drug positions. The reality that is most often believed in the current literature that PCP is not violent-inducing (Brecher et al., 1988; Siegel, 1978, p.285), and even more likely to make the user non-violent (Wish, 1986) is not adequately reflected in the article.

The negative citations are almost all from government-owned websites or misquoted studies. This article is not up to wikipedia's standard, as it is quite obviously biased! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.219.113.143 (talk) 07:51, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Schizophrenia might indeed have some connection to low glutamate receptor densities, despite the above author's claims. This said, the NMDA antagonist model of schizophrenia is questionable, and the other claims of the author are quite valid.

The article is very biased on the issue of violence. The original anesthetic studies of phencyclidine never reported a link to violence, and the studies above corroborate that, as do others still (eg. NIDA ethnographic study of 1979, found in Feldman, 1979; http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/pcp/pcp_info5.shtml)

Vivamoque (talk) 04:52, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

I agree with this sentiment, and have temporarily changed the Effects section to first mention the evidence against increased violence before mentioned the over-televised cases. 67.165.143.170 (talk) 18:17, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Olney's lesions

The assertion in the article that Olney's lesions appear only in rodents and not in humans isn't adequately sourced, with only an article relating to a different drug and a link to Erowid which may not be an objective source. The part about humans having an enzyme that rodents lack that metabolizes PCP needs to be specifically linked to a scientific paper. If this claim is false it is potentially dangerous, because it could lead people to believe that PCP does not cause brain damage and cause more people to try it.128.95.175.54 (talk) 00:33, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

I removed some speculation based on missing or unreliable (per WP:MEDRS) sources. -- Ed (Edgar181) 14:36, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Since it appears in the article on Olney's lesions, I have also included the famous unpublished monkey study, but here emphasizing the controversy of non-neurotoxic claims. This is simply to add some evidence for speculation that Olney's Lesions might not occur in humans at normal doses.

We might want to also add that co-administration of GABA-A agonists (or positive allosteric modulators such as benzodiazepines), 5HT-2A agonists (e.g. LSD and similar psychedelics), or α-2 adrenergic agonists (e.g. clonidine) have been shown in many studies to attenuate these lesions. These are noted in the article on Olney's Lesions.

Another thing we might want to note is that these studies used incredibly high doses, far above typical human dosages in mg/kg.

We might want to note, however, the studies that claim that PCP is even more neurotoxic than Ketamine, which most of these studies (in particular the unpublished controversial monkey study) use.

I didn't want to edit this section too much though (and inadvertently give the article bias), so I will rely on someone else to change this.

67.165.143.170 (talk) 18:36, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

About how much time it takes to get the psychiatric effects?

I wondered if psychiatric effects last only during the drug is present in the body, or last longer?

Thanks if you can help me and wikipedia!

--Nicobzz (talk) 19:45, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Receptor binding

Please help me fill this in:

Ki-values

Receptor	Ki (nM)	±
NMDA	313
D2high	2.7
D1	?
DAT	?
μ-opioid	?
κ-opioid	?	?

--— Preceding unsigned comment added by Testem (talk • contribs) 11:50, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Synthesis

Somebody needs to mention synthesis. The method I know is piperidine and cyclohexanone being reacted in the presence of potassium cyanide and sodium sulphite to form 1-piperidinocyclohexanecarbonitrile, which is oxidised with phenylmagnesium bromide to form 1-(1-phenylcyclohexyl)piperidine. This should be added unless it is illegal or whatever.

Jamez Z23 (talk) 16:50, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

No mention of addiction/dependence

The article does not mention addiction and/or dependence. Does that mean that PCP is not known to have that effect on users? Or is this an omission? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.70.220.6 (talk) 13:44, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

It is an omission. Jamez Z23 (talk) 16:51, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Name?

Perhaps someone can explain how we get "PCP" from "Phencyclidine." I see only one "p" in "Phencyclidine;" where does the second come from? *Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 16:03, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

1-(1-phenylcyclohexyl)piperidine — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.34.207.219 (talk) 06:15, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Administration

No mention that it can be injected? Am I missing something? MartinezMD (talk) 18:36, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Removal of sourced content

User:TenBingo - please explain this removal of sourced content. Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 18:29, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

Superpowers?

The "Effects" section still includes claims of superhuman strength. This is directly refuted in the wikipedia page Misconceptions about drugs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vivamoque (talk • contribs) 10:52, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Are you talking about this? "PCP may induce feelings of strength, power, and invulnerability as well as a numbing effect on the mind.[5]" If so, it says feelings of, which matches what the misconceptions article says. Jytdog (talk) 14:29, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

No, I was talking about this sentence:

Other commonly cited types of incidents include self-mutilation of various types, breaking handcuffs, inflicting remarkable property damage, and pulling one's own teeth

I don't think people can normally break handcuffs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vivamoque (talk • contribs) 00:19, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

 Done Jytdog (talk) 00:41, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

people cant break handcuffs normaly because it hurts. if you cant feel your wrists, it's easy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.104.140.51 (talk) 12:29, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

Rubbish. Handcuffs are made of steel; breaking them is anything but "easy." If you're going to assert otherwise, you'd best have a mighty reliable source.

*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 15:59, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

PCP users over exert there strength levels, in which they end up tearing their own muscles in the process, causing themselves massive injuries. If you squeezed your own wrist as tightly as possible you would probably end up breaking your own hand due to due to extreme tension, trust me. People on PCP don't feel that sort of pain due to the effects of the drug, the adrenaline and their heightened reflexes causes them to move their muscles rapidly and viciously. Imagine pulling your hands apart with extreme aggression, trust me, those hand cuffs would break. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C0:D082:7001:3CF1:8B5:92FA:37C1 (talk • contribs)

Pain or not, PCP or not, people cannot normally break handcuffs (if placed behind their backs). Some handcuffs with poor designs can be broken with the help of leverage against a hard object (plenty of examples seen on YouTube videos, criminals escaping, etc) or if they're placed in front of them. However just struggling with them properly applied, no, it does not happen. MartinezMD (talk) 05:10, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

When improperly applied (in front) or designed poorly:

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p82ypGazlRc
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0GAQjEznEc

MartinezMD (talk) 05:18, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

These men in the videos don't seem to be trying hard enough, they are relying more on some sort of technique in the spur of the moment. Some people can bend crowbars. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3779082/Las-Vegas-murder-suspect-captured-breaking-handcuffs-escaping-prison.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.80.155.185 (talk • contribs)

That's my point. The cuffs are breaking because of leverage, not superhuman strength. and I don't think people can bend a crowbar only with their hands. But that's not the issue here regardless. MartinezMD (talk) 07:56, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Crowbars aren't as thick as pipes. They're not that hard to break. Obviously, being metal they have great resistance, but as the more they give the more likely they are to continue to give. The longer force is applied the greater the magnitude of the force as it spreads. Humans have been known to cause metal to give, including steal, using brute strength. It's not unheard of.

Contradiction

This article appears to contradict itself: one paragraph asserts that PCP was discovered in 1926, whilst another claims that the discovery date of 1926 is a common misconception. 86.14.40.196 (talk) 14:32, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

First synthesized

This ref[2] says 1926...

This is not the best source[3] Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 05:09, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

The best source would the original journal article in German that I cited. I, however, don't want to spend the money to get the full copy to fully review it. I might be able to get it through my library. Do you have access by any chance? MartinezMD (talk) 14:30, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

User:MartinezMD I have sent it to you. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 06:20, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Other refs also support the 1926 such as[4][5] etc Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 06:24, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

References

Per WP policies, a secondary source is better than the primary, and both the proceedings source and the Barceloux volume (p. 608) are fine to say when it was first prepared. [Refs. 1-3 cited by Barceloux on p. 627 may be worth pulling. Doc, the first is Anesth Analg (1958) 37:283-294.] See also this more recent review, and this one, which have selected from among the early citations (so presumably read them). And see section 7.5, here.

If you want to say how the compound was first made, any chemistry editor with access to ACS tools can pull up the full citation history for the J Prakt Chemie, tracing that 1926 article forward to all that have cited it (and cited those who have cited it), to find a secondary source. If you want a read of the German, there are two issues, the language, but also the fact that structural representations in use then were very different than now, and often contained errors (as this was long before NMR and mass spec methods, so most structural eludication was done chemically and inferentially). If the only way to get at the answer is to have the German read, I can do that same day, if screenshots can be posted to the Commons or someplace here. Just state the question, and link to the images here, and I will take a look.

Finally, please, please, please, do not begin using erowid as a source. We settled the fact that is is not a reliable source for chemistry, here, over a decade ago, and much time was spent removing those unreliable citations from the encyclopedia. Wiedersehen. 2601:246:C700:19D:6DB8:E3D9:8FD6:A7B0 (talk) 22:06, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

It's only one editor who keeps contesting the dates/information. I've messaged him to join us here. I got the article from Doc James (thank you). I do not see a modern structure of PCP, but I agree much of this was likely done by inference and crystal temperatures (as I don't think crystallography would have helped). The language is less of an issue. Chrome and Word can translate most of it and much of the rest can be understood by context. So I can't tell yet what they got. If they really did not make PCP, then the secondary sources are simply wrong. It would not be the first time a mistake is made and it gets carried over forever more. A chemist's help, especially one that spoke German, would be ideal. Do we know any on WP? There likely are some. MartinezMD (talk) 04:06, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Grade 12?

What does "people in grade 12" mean? Is it in some sort of grading system or classification that we should link to? - Tournesol (talk) 08:43, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

@Tournesol: It's a grade-level/year in school. I added a link. DMacks (talk) 14:10, 2 November 2020 (UTC)