Talk:Phaethon

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Pronounciation

(pronounced /ˈfeɪətn/ or /ˈfeɪəθən/)

Not in Greek anyway. I don't know to whom the English-only speakers are trying to communicate with, but if you try that with English-foreign-speakers like me, you would get a bewildered look. The true pronunciation is like /fuhehˈtonn/, and if you hear a German or an Italian saying Phaëton it will sound like /fuhehˈtonn/. In Sweden we don't go around saying [kamˈbridge] /kuhm-brid-gheh/ for Cambridge, we say it [keimbridʒ], like Englishmen do it. ... said: Rursus (bork²) 18:20, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, /fuh-ˈeh-tawn/, not /fuh-ehˈ-tonn/! ... said: Rursus (bork²) 18:23, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn’t really matter what the Swedes say when they’re talking to each other – they can call it Cambridge or Combridge or Cumbridge provided they understand each other, just as they say "Venedig", "Florens", Irland” and much else. When they’re talking to an English-speaker, of course, it’s a good idea to pronounce it so as to be understood. Just let your hair down! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.36.217.14 (talk) 14:01, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That is the pronunciation in English. There is more explanation at Traditional_English_pronunciation_of_Latin. Count Truthstein (talk) 06:04, 2 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Spelling

The article at the beginning says Phaëtōn or Phaethōn. I don't think the stress mark on the o is typically used in English (just as "omega" is not spelt "ōmega"). I propose that this be changed to Phaëton or Phaëthon. Count Truthstein (talk) 06:04, 2 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Untitled

Well Phaethon was the son of Apollo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.170.221.217 (talk • contribs) 01:58, 30 May 2012

Real Life Basis?

According to Plato (in Timaeus), the Egyptians seemed to have knowledge that the Phaeton story was the mythological rendering of a real life occurrence. It would be interesting to find references in the published literature that have explored the various aspects of this question such as (a) the apparent play on words of the name itself (aton being the Egyptian name of the sun), (b) the actual occurrence in real-life of kings in Africa who claimed descent from the sun (i.e. the [Old Kingdom], particularly dynasties V and VI), (c) the [4.2 kiloyear event], and (d) the actual occurrence of a boy king at the time of this event assigned by Manetho, with a name Phiops containing a part of Phaeton's name and seems to further the play on words. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.232.226.86 (talk) 17:20, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It seems pretty clear that the myth of Phaethon is an allegorical rendering of the apparent motions of the planet Phaethon (Jupiter), very common in these types of myths, especially the motif of challenging the sun, failing, and falling to earth and/or being killed (see also Inanna/Attar/Lucifer representing the planet Venus) - this is all just synodic cycles. Jupiter has a particularly long cycle that spans seasons, hence the heat/cold motif. The conspiracy theory that Phaethon was a real planet that came too close to earth in ancient times was concocted by people ignorant of how astronomy works. Phaethon is a real planet - Jupiter. Dinoguy2 (talk) 09:33, 4 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved to Phaethon. --BDD (talk) 23:53, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Phaëton → Phaethon or Phaëthon – The spelling with "th" is the correct spelling. The name in the original language is Φαέθων, not Φαέτων. "Phaethon" is the form given in English dictionaries: Oxford, Collins, Merriam-Webster, American Heritage and Random House. "Phaeton" is defined in the dictionaries instead as a light four-wheeled horse-drawn vehicle or a touring car: Oxford, Collins, Merriam-Webster, American Heritage and Random House. Esoglou (talk) 13:37, 11 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment would we redirect "Phaëton" to the disambiguation page at Phaeton ? -- 70.24.244.158 (talk) 14:26, 11 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree that we should. It is worth noting that the disambiguation page uses the correct spelling for all the pages about the Greek mythological figures - except the one that it is here proposed to adjust - and uses for all the pages about ships and other vehicles the spelling that is correct for them. Esoglou (talk) 15:13, 11 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. davidiad { t } 22:22, 11 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Apollo in Ovid?

The article now says: Apollo, stricken with grief, refused to drive his chariot for days. Finally the other Greek gods persuaded him not to leave the world in darkness. Apollo blamed Jupiter for killing his son, but Jupiter told him there was no other way.

Shouldn't it be Helios?--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 16:07, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The cited English translation does use the name "Apollo":

"Apollo shin'd amid the glare of light."

Ovid himself does not use the word "Apollo", but he does use the name "Phoebus":

"colligit amentes et adhuc terrore paventes

Phoebus equos stimuloque dolens et verbere saevit

(saevit enim) natumque obiectat et inputat illis."

Ovid does not use "Helios", at least in this work. He does use "Sol", but this is printed several times with a lower-case initial, indicating that, at least in those instances, what was in mind was the astronomical sun, not some mythological being. Esoglou (talk) 19:27, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The English poem previously given in the article was a largely independent composition. I have replaced it with an accurate prose translation of what Ovid actually wrote. Esoglou (talk) 14:44, 1 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Phaethon also means the planet 'Jupiter'

Perhaps it should be mentioned towards the end of the article that 'Phaethon' (φαέθω) also means the planet Jupiter, according to Cicero.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0058%3Aalphabetic+letter%3D*f%3Aentry+group%3D1%3Aentry%3Dfae%2Fqw

Exactly, remove this reference from the beginning of the article

Phaethon is the mythological son of Helios. It just so happens that his name was sometimes used to signify the planet Jupiter. Its primary use is to be the name of the son of Helios. It's like saying: "Hoover is the name of a series of vacuum cleaners by many different brands." No, it's not. It's the name of one brand, that has evolved to also signify any and all vacuum cleaners. Therefore, I'm changing the start of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.40.51.190 (talk) 13:37, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The article says that "[h]is name was also used by the Ancient Greeks as an alternative name for the planet Jupiter, the motions and cycles of which were personified in poetry and myth." All of the stories including Phaeton are then pretty much descriptions of the planet Jupiter. Even in Phaeton (disambiguation) he is listed as the personification of Jupiter; this would also mean a conflation between the son of Eos and the son of Helios. Additionally, it means that the name "Phaeton" is no longer suitable for the asteroid belt progenitor. 118.148.86.10 (talk) 09:45, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Meaning of the name Phaethon

Unless I missed it, this enter doesn't mention the actual Greek meaning of the name Phaethon, which indeed means "radiant."

birth

When was he born 216.227.53.89 (talk) 00:17, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]