Talk:Peter Kürten

Cultural impact

The playwright Anthony Neilson has written a stageplay revolving around the trial of Peter Kürten entitled 'Normal' (which incidentally explores the relationship between Kürten and his wife). I would put this on the page though I'll let someone do it in such a manner that it won't be instantly deleted by the wiki police.

In 2009 there will be Czech film Normal aka Angels Gone starring Dagmar Havlová, the actress and wife of Czech ex-president Václav Havel in the role of Kürten's wife. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1342408/ , http://www.normalfilm.cz/ Put this information in the article, please. Sorry for my english. Dronte (talk) 15:41, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

The reference to the Fassbinder movie is purely wrong, as can be found in numerous other sources the plot of the movie is based on the life of german serial killer Fritz Haarmann, the name is even mentioned in the section here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.252.50.42 (talk) 17:04, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Kuerten's head

Why is the fact that his head is housed in Wisconsin Dells dubious? Having been there and seen it, I can assert that it is. If pictures are needed, I'll get one the next time I go. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.159.245.73 (talk) 16:39, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

I concur. It's quite easy to find a picture of it on the internet. I believe it is currently in Hawaii in the original owner's possession, but that could be wrong. Ripley's may still have it. It appears dissected as it was when they studied it, cut in half. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.111.211.195 (talk) 20:17, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Kuerten's wife

Would it be possible to have more information about kuertens wife? How did such a man come to marry and why did she not become a victim?

Apparently because he was actually very fond of her. He even told her to turn him in and take the reward.(83.13.39.98 (talk) 22:31, 22 February 2008 (UTC))

Two things in here contradict themselves:

Seconds sentence of the second paragraph: "Disturbed from an early age,"

Then, middle of the second to last paragraph: "Kürten was, in fact, in perfect mental health"

Are these reconcililable? Thanx. 68.39.174.238 00:10, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

There's a great deal of confusion from some authors misunderstanding a reading of sanity vs insanity. Clearly the muddle arises as sanity is a legal concept not a psychiatric one. Kurten was a psychopath and therefore not in what one might consider perfect mental health, the court however found him sane ie. had mens rea and therefore was; in it's view, responsible. One can be mad and sane.

Kuerten masturbating dogs

Reference found here: http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/history/kurten/killer_4.html

Do not revert, people.

Owing to ambiguous punctuation, that citation still raises the question of whether the dogcatcher taught Kurten how to masturbate himself (and how to torture dogs) or taught Kurten how to masturbate dogs as well as torturing them. Both very strange things for a dogcatcher to teach a kid. Asat (talk) 06:49, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

References, etc

Why are there no references/notes/external links within the article? Can we do something about that? Maria 03:21, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Early life, deviant behaviour and trial

I don't have all the references to hand but I recall reaing that Kurten had a relationship with a masochist and 'honed' his tastes for sadism. He also had a blood fetish which he once fed by allegedly beheading a swan and placing his mouth over the neck. During his trial he was placed in a wooden construction for his own protection http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial2/kurten/ (83.13.39.98 (talk) 21:52, 7 February 2008 (UTC))

Yes, actually, there is a good reference for this topic. I read an excerpt of "Cannibal Killers: The History of Impossible Murderers" by Moira Martingale in the compilation book "Cannibals: Shocking True Tales of the Last Taboo on Land and at Sea" edited by Joseph S. Cummins (printed in 2001 by The Lyons Press). It talks about how "he particularly found the sight of blood stimulating and often tore the heads off swans to enable him to drink their blood."

Also, I tried to edit that he was one of 13 children, not 11 like the wiki article states, but my changes were rejected. I may have not cited my reference correctly?Mcan875 (talk) 01:21, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

I should also have added this, which I think should be considered for inclusion in the wiki article: There are a few things I think that could help flesh this out, no pun intended. One, there is some need for citations. In the work by Moira Martingale, "Cannibal Killers: The History of Impossible Murderers," she states that

(1) His father and grandfather were both alcoholics

(2) His father was known to be violent and often rape his mother in front of the children, in addition to his 13 year-old sister. She states that Kurten raped his 13 year-old sister as well, but not 'multiple' daughters. This should have a citation needed bracket for fact-checking purposes, unless the aforementioned text will suffice as an edit/source alone.

(3) The dog/rat-catcher that is mentioned in the wiki article was the one that introduced him to his tendency toward cruelty, sexual deviance, and later, cannibalism. The dog/rat-catcher would perform sexual acts and torture the animals in front of Kurten, who found that he found sexual satisfaction from doing the same.

(4) Around the age of 16, he attacked a girl in the woods and left her for dead, but she survived. He tried to strangle another girl, but she managed to get away, and for this he was sent to prison for four years.Mcan875 (talk) 01:44, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

"Primary motive"

This statement: "Kürten gave his primary motive to Berg as being one entirely of sexual pleasure."

Directly followed by: "Kürten said to the legal examiners that his primary motive was to "strike back at oppressive society". He did not deny that he had sexually molested his victims, but he always claimed during his trial that this was not his primary motive."

It doesn't help that there are almost no sources whatsoever, and that the article generally reads like it was written by some hobbyist junior high school student, but this at least needs to be remedied. If Kurten did indeed declare these contrary points of view, the article needs to reveal them as such so that it doesn't read like an oversight or simply sloppy writing on the part of the editor.

Number of names on suspect list

In the third paragraph of the "Murders" section: "The variety of victims and murder methods gave police the impression that more than one killer was at large: the police had over 900,000 different names on their potential suspect list." Over 900,000 names? That seems too high to be plausible to me, plus the phrase is similar to the "it's over 9,000" meme, which makes me even more suspicious. There doesn't seem to be a citation for it, so I'm not sure if the recourse is to add a "citation needed" tag, or what. Bspatafora (talk) 03:57, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Number of Murders

The episode of Ripley's Believe it or not; which aired on 1982/09/01 has an ending segment, where they show his head; and states the count of confirmed murders is 17.

Is it possible to update the confirmed count based on that?

Randy Newman – In Germany Before The War

Randy Newman's composition "In Germany Before The War" is a song about Peter Kürten. For some reason it has been decided that song references ar "verboten", so there is no mention of Newman's song on this page.

"PLEASE DO NOT ADD SONG REFERENCES, INCIDENTAL THEATER PORTRAYALS, REFERENCES TO INCIDENTAL DEPICTIONS UPON ALBUM COVERS OR OTHER DEPICTIONS UPON TV SHOWS LIKE COMICS, ALBUM COVERS OR OTHER IRRELEVANT TRIVIA HERE. IT DOES NOT BELONG HERE AND WILL REMOVED WITH NO FURTHER DISCUSSION. TRIVIA IS INAPPROPRIATE PER THE PROJECT GOVERNING THIS ARTICLE"

Why not?Who has decided it's "irrelevant trivia"? Arrivisto (talk) 19:47, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

This template (or very similar derivatives) exist upon many articles of this nature. See the Ted Bundy one. It existed before I joined Wiki. in 2008. I couldn't agree more with the message personally because believe me, without it, you'll see a deluge of inclusions of incidental mentions by John or Jane Hollywood upon series 4 episode 3 of such and such a sitcom, a fictional crime show, or mention upon a Church of Misery song etc.--Kieronoldham (talk) 01:53, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Is it really [ˈkyːɐ̯tn̩], not [ˈkʏʁtn̩]? (cc @Austronesier and LiliCharlie) Nardog (talk) 11:33, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

@Nardog: The short vowel is correct here ([ˈkʏɐ̯tn̩] or [ˈkʏʁtn̩]), based on the common pronunciation of the town Kürten and the name Dieter Kürten (listen to his own pronunciation here). –Austronesier (talk) 14:57, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

@Austronesier: Thanks! But I believe we use ⟨ʁ⟩ after short vowels following Duden and de Gruyter's pronunciation dictionaries. Nardog (talk) 10:59, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

First murder in 1899?

Earlier in the piece it says he murdered two classmates (causing both to drown) when he was 13- in 1892. Why aren't they counted as murders later? Surely holding someone's head under water until they died is murder. Cmhbuck (talk) 05:55, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Seduction was illegal?

Under Murders/ Imprisonment and Release, it says "allegations were pursued, thus earning Kürten an eight-month prison sentence for seduction". Was it illegal to seduce someone? Or was the author remiss in informing the reader the seduction was of a minor? Cmhbuck (talk) 06:09, 4 August 2024 (UTC)