Talk:Persian language/Archive 5

Archive 1

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Archive 5

Inclusion of Crimea on map.

Although Russia has invaded Crimea, it is still internationally recognised as Ukraine. And yet it has been highlighted in blue for number of speakers, with Russia and not Ukraine. Shouldn't this be changed? Mr anonymous username (talk) 13:36, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Dari

Afghanistan should be removed because Taliban only uses Pashto and the Islamic Republic doesn't exist anymore. Beshogur (talk) 10:34, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Farsi as a correct English name of the language

There has has been an editing dispute over whether it is proper to use the word "Farsi" as a name of the language in English. It very much is OK to use this word. See, for example, "About Persian (Farsi)", published by the Department of the Languages and Cultures of the Near and Middle East at SOAS University of London, which says, "The Persian spoken in Afghanistan is known as Dari. The dialectal variation between Farsi and Dari has been compared to that between European French and Canadian French." This means that the word "Farsi" can be used to mean "Persian spoken in Iran" as opposed to "Persian spoken in Afghanistan". Editors are encouraged to cease and desist from editing this article to suggest that the word "Farsi" is in any way incorrect or pompous in English. It is no more incorrect or pompous than it is to call Acre, Israel "Akko", or Leghorn, Italy, Livorno. Real English speakers use the city names Akko and Leghorn, and the language name Farsi without a hint of pomposity. —Anomalocaris (talk) 23:12, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

References

It's not correct, and never will it be correct. It's also not OK. Persian is the only correct English word for the language. The language has only been called Persian in Western discourse for centuries and your goal is to negate this established important precedent. The real motive behind this absurdity to use more than one name for Persian is to undermine Iranian history, undermine the language, and confuse those who don't speak Persian into thinking it's either a brand new language, a dialect used in some parts of Iran or Dari/Farsi/Tajik are different languages.

That comparison in your link is absolutely baseless. The gap between Persian in Afghanistan, Iran and Tajkistan, is as "large" as the gap between American English and Canadian English. Funnily enough, it uses "French" instead of "Français" while trying to get people to refer to Persian by three different names. The hypocrisy is astonishing!

The link leads to a British institution and its Iranophobic content is not surprising because the British state has for the last few centuries tried to suffocate and exterminate the Iranian nation, some notable examples are the two British-led genocides, the "Great Game", the Qajar concessions, vandalizing ancient Iranian sites, the bigoted and Eurocentric term "Middle East", making people think that Dari, Farsi and Tajik are three distinguishable languages, renaming the Persian Gulf to "British Sea" and "Arabian Gulf", etc.

You've not presented any arguments. You should educate yourself on what endonyms and exonyms are.

Iranophobes must cease and desist from vandalizing this article. Those who don't speak Persian and tries to be an authority on the language truly know no shame.

Sickofthisbs (talk) 22:15, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Please don't impute "goals" on other Wikipedia editors.

As it says at Dialect#Dialect or language, "There is no universally accepted criterion for distinguishing two different languages from two dialects (i.e. varieties) of the same language." The fact that a tongue has a single word name, such as "Farsi", does not mean that the user of that name is expressing an opinion as to whether the tongue is a dialect or a language.

According to Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary, "Farsi" as an English word dates to "ca. 1885". So it's been in English use for about 135 years. But it doesn't matter how long it's been in use. What matters is that it is in use now. Languages change. For more than a century, the most polite word in the United States to describe a certain group of people was "Negro", but in the past 60 years, other words have superseded it and been superseded themselves. Like it or not, "Farsi" is an accepted English word now. The colonialist ambitions of Great Britain or the United Kingdom toward Iran do not render incorrect or pompous any current use of the word "Farsi". Cheers! —Anomalocaris (talk) 03:02, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

References

One person in ca 1885 who once noted that some Persian-speakers refer to the language as "Farsi" doesn't mean it's been in English use for 135 years. Refrain from lying and making fallacies as it's disrespectful.

Still not seeing any argument from you.

What matters is that it is in use now

other words have superseded it and been superseded themselves

Like it or not, "Farsi" is an accepted English word now.

In the last few decades, a vocal minority in the Iranian diaspora have incorrectly referred to Persian as "Farsi" in English either for political reasons or simply because they were unaware of what the language is called in English. It still haven't superseded "Persian", thus using your own logic, you've conceded that it's not an accepted English word. Congratulations on closing your own case. Sickofthisbs (talk) 17:17, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

Parsi is the endonym, Farsi an exonym

Farsi is the Arabic spelling for 'Parsi' which means Persian in Persian. 197.101.9.101 (talk) 19:58, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Persian is only native to Iran Tajikistan and Afghanistan

The Persian language is only native to these countries because native Persians make up the populations within these countries. Persian first and foremost is not native to Iraq; Persian was only there in that region when it was under the Persian Empires. It does not have anything with the Republic of Iraq that came much later, which is today, and the Arab people. As well, there was a failed verification to whatever source was provided. Also, Persian is not native to Uzbekistan Russia, and Azerbaijan either. None of the sources provided show Persian being a native language there. It only shows a population of Persians who live there and speak the language. The implementation of such information is the result of POV Pan Iranian attitude. One cannot take what was there during the Persian empires of history and try to push that narrative onto countries and lands that have nothing to do with it today. WatanWatan2020 (talk) 07:00, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Your rant is pretty clearly WP:FORUM but instead of deleting it I'll just direct you to actually read the sources you keep removing from the infobox.

From Lev Peripelkin (An Ethnic History of Russia) "Among other indigenous peoples of Iranian origin were the Tats, the Talishes and the Kurds."

The Tats (living in Azerbaijan and Russia) of course speaking a dialect of Persian as the page's infobox shows. Rest of the sources in this article's lede (Richard Foltz and also Iranica} say similarly for Uzbekistan and Iraq. And your comment about Persian empire in Iraq makes no sense, Arabs were also migrants to much of Iraq and other Arab countries but nobody says their language isn't native there. --Qahramani44 (talk) 02:50, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Adding Pakistan to 'Native to' section

I propose that Pakistan to be added to the 'Native to' section due to the fact of major Persian dialects spoken, such as Dari, Hazaragi, Tajiki, Dehwari, Madaklashti, and Sistani, which are spoken throughout Pakistan, from Balochistan to Gilgit-Baltistan. There are over a million Dari speakers in Pakistan, according to the first source that pops up in the page, [1], and Defence.pk says that Pakistan had been a lingua franca and a major language of Pakistan until the British era, [2], and many groups have claimed that Persian is the ancestral languages of Pakistan and that Urdu is a direct descendant of the Persian language [3]. Please let me know any thoughts or concerns. Muhafiz-e-Pakistan (talk) 22:13, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

Merge "Standard Persian" here?

Should Standard Persian redirect here? I don't get why we have these two articles. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 19:08, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Yeah I don't get the point of that article. Either that or it should get redirected to New Persian. --HistoryofIran (talk) 01:23, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

I don't know enough about the subject but I trust you @HistoryofIran: feel free to do it. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 10:19, 3 January 2023 (UTC)