Talk:Periplus of the Erythraean Sea

Muziris

The location of Muziris is not the main subject here. That should be left to the article on Muziris. While its whereabouts are still matter to differences in opinion, the stronger opinion is somewhere near to Kodungalloor. Being a matter of confusion, its better to avoid that discussion in this article. Hence dropping the lines about the location of Muziris.NMKuttiady (talk) 10:43, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Could Rhapta have been in modern-day Mozambique?

Does anyone have access to a copy of the "Periplus"? - either in the original Greek or in translation?

Carl Peters implies that it states that Rhapta lay, not at the mouth of its river, but some distance upstream, adding that this requirement would fit Quelimane quite well. But is he quoting the "Periplus" correctly?

Incidentally, remembering the successful Phoenician circumnavigation of Africa in 600 BC, it is by no means impossible that subsequent travellers would have ventured as far as the mouth of the Zambesi (or even beyond) - at the time when the "Periplus" was being compiled. I used to work in the Zimbabwean Meteorological Office, and can confirm that alternations in the coastal wind pattern did facilitate two-way journeys there. --DLMcN (talk) 17:58, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Dear David: Please note that I am travelling at the moment and having touble getting decent internet access, and won't be able to access my books and notes until after I return home later this month. I have three different English translations of the Periplus at home - of which, perhaps the most trustworthy one is that by Lionel Casson (based on an ealier one) which contains detailed notes as well as the Greek original. I will compare the accounts of Raphta after I get home and report back.

That said, perhaps you could start by checking out William H. Schoff's translation which has been digitalised and is online at: [1].

I think your supposition that other travellers, after the original Phoenician circumnavigation of Africa c. 600 BCE, probably sailed down the east coast of Africa is almost beyond question. There is evidence for this in both Western Classical and Chinese literature. I can give you more details on this if you wish, after I return home. Please remind me, though for, as I mentioned above, I am getting very forgetful (and also I will be very busy and distracted after I return). All best wishes, John Hill (talk) 11:16, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Many thanks, John, for your helpful reply.

My interest stems from my involvement in the controversy surrounding Ancient Zimbabwe (and its principal monument Great Zimbabwe) ... i.e., I am wondering if knowledge of the gold riches there, might actually date back a couple of thousand years. The earliest known reference to gold deposits in that (approximate) area is, I think, by Cosmas Indicopleustes of Alexandria in the sixth century AD.--DLMcN (talk) 18:36, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

No W in greek (either lower case Omega or upper case Omega)

It seems odd that the information on a greek coin would contain what is said to be a W. Should that be an Ω or a ω?Naraht (talk) 14:43, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

I boldly fixed this here and at Endubis. While I was at it, I also fixed X -> Ξ (the sound fits the latter, completely wrong for the former) and C -> Ϲ (lunate sigma, which has a different code point from the Latin letter but looks deceptively similar). The Ξ is hard to make out but it might be an archaic form similar to Phoenician samekh. Unfortunately both forms are unsourced and perhaps technically original research, but at least this version is more plausible. Hairy Dude (talk) 05:29, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Map: "Bizantion"

Hello, on the linked map there is, on the Western Indian coast, a pointer named "Bizantion" - does anyone know anything about why a place in India is described with this Greek / Grecized name? -- marilyn.hanson (talk) 15:19, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

I think the answer is that it follows the text, which has some oddities. See Schoff's analysis, which is on the Internet Archive. There is another map, possibly better, on Wikimedia Commons. 79.79.255.157 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 06:21, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

WP:ERA

Note that this edit established the use of the page as BC/AD, which should be maintained consistently pending a new consensus to the contrary. Thanks. — LlywelynII 07:25, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

"Unclear"

Though Schoff is unclear about which of several Berenices he is referring to...

was something in the article before I got here. There doesn't seem to be any question about it (cf. notes to §1, which even give exact geographical coordinates), so no idea where the previous editors' misunderstanding came from, or if it referred to some other part of the text.

The immediately following section

One peculiarity noted by Schoff while translating from the original [[Greek language|Greek]] version is that "the text is so vague and uncertain that [the author] seems rather to be quoting from someone else, unless indeed much of this part of the work has been lost in copying."{{sfnp|Schoff|1912|p=16}}

seems to indicate a real failure of critical reading ability, since even the quote itself clearly states that he's only talking about a single passage in the text (namely, its treatment of the Azanian/Swahili coast) and not the entire account. In any case, given Egg's disregard for the edition of the Periplus that Schoff was working from, I don't think we can take his word for the poor state of the Greek on its own. — LlywelynII 07:54, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Sources for future article expansion

Obviously, the most important thing is to rebuild the article to talk more clearly about a date and authorship using sources more recent than Schoff; b the content/journey of the periplus; c a separate (or at least clearer) recounting of the important information preserved in the text; and d the history of editions and research into the periplus.

Some of these sources (particularly Robin) can help with some of that. In any case,

• Chami, Felix A. (1999), "The Early Iron Age on Mafia island and Its Relationship with the Mainland", Azania, vol. Vol. XXXIV, pp. 1–10 {{citation}}: |volume= has extra text (help).
• Fussman, G. (1991), "Le Périple et l'Histoire Politique del'Inde", Journal Asiatique, vol. No. 279, pp. 31–38 {{citation}}: |volume= has extra text (help). (in French)
• Menachery, George (1987), Kodungalluur, City of St. Thomas.
• Nagaswamy, R. (1995), Roman Karur, Brahadish Publications.
• Robin, Christian (1991), "L'Arabie du Sud et la Date du Périple de la Mer Érythrée" (PDF), Journal Asiatique, vol. No. 279, pp. 1–30 {{citation}}: |volume= has extra text (help). (in French)

weren't being used to verify anything about the article and were just larding up the Bibliography. Kindly restore them as they're being used to verify points in the running text, although they should be checked against present scholarship to make sure they're not being used to repeat former mistakes about the text, its content, etc. — LlywelynII 08:18, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Name

The previous version of this page began

The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea or Periplus of the Red Sea

but it's simply never called the latter in English, for obvious reasons. It may be possible to find a handful of reader-unfriendly translated references to that effect, but they're so unimportant that it's an WP:UNDUE issue to include them in the WP:LEADSENTENCE of this article. On the other hand, the Latin name is not only the Latin name but also frequently used itself in English sources, including Casson's important translation. — LlywelynII 08:07, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

First map in article

Text at the bottom left of the first map shown seems to imply that the Periplus's author(s) knew that the Atlantic and Indian Oceans met at the southern tip of Africa. Is this true? Acwilson9 (talk) 07:17, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

At the time the academic opinions on the Indian Ocean leaned towards it being connected at some far southern point. There were those who believed the Indian Ocean was enclosed, but they did not become the leading opinion until shortly after this periplus, due to the popularity of Ptolemy's world map. With the periplus being from 40-70 CE, and Ptolemy's map coming a century later. Adamcoxj0808 (talk) 19:31, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Coin of the Himyarite Kingdom

The coin which is depicted in this article is of Munro Hay's type 1.13i-iv "Imitation New Style Athenian issue" (Coinage of Arabia Felix the pre-Islamic coinage of the Yemen. Nomismata 5, Milan, 2003, 135-7). This issue is not a good notwithstanding the BM cited provenance, and myself would risk a Sabaean provenance for it. Why not instead take a coin from the Raydan series (probably struck in Paydan palace) which is more clearly Himyarite? Azd0815 (talk) 15:47, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Names of ports in India

Wikipedia article should provide a complete list of the names of the ancient ports in India.

Further study is required.

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