Talk:Perdiccas

Macedonian nobleman?

It says here that he was the son of "Macedonian nobleman" Orontes, but neither source says that Orontes was a Macedonian nobleman. Considering that he was briefly satrap of Armenia, from the Orontid line, could he not be the son/grandson of Orontes, who was the satrap of Armenia? Or possibly of that family, which "son of" can mean, as was Mithrenes, the son of Orontes, who was also satrap of Armenia before and possibly when Perdiccas was? I am just wanting to clarify if somewhere else in the writing, the authors specify that this Orontes, an Iranian/Persian name, was actually a Macedonian nobleman? Especially considering that the Orontid dynasty of Armenia, named for Orontes/Aruantes, which used Persian Iranian names because for most of its ancient history, it was a part of the various persian Empires, and the line of Armenian satraps goes Hydarnes, Orontes, Orontes, Mithrenes, Orontes, Perdiccas. Youngkyf (talk) 10:42, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

I don't know if you're still looking for an answer to this question. I will just say, generally, that Perdiccas was probably completely Macedonian, most directly because of the pre-eminence he achieved and his close companionship to the King, but peripherally from our sources and his career. The hostile tradition around Perdiccas, if he was partially Asian (Persian, Iranian), would probably have mentioned it more at length. We know the Macedonian rank and file were averse to serving "barbarians" (the conquered peoples, aka the Persians). Again, one of the issues around accepting Alexander IV and Heracles was because of their foreign blood -- generally, if Perdiccas possessed any similar bloodline, his rising to high stations among the Macedonian elite is questionable.

In terms of his father's name and origin, although it is possible the Macedonian Orontes was not of the Orestian royal house, as mentioned above everything points to Perdiccas being a blue-blooded Macedonian noble. His bloodline is what enabled him to even have the ambition to become King of all of Alexander's Empire; Eumenes, the Cardian, knew he had no chance at such an endeavour. From all the sources I've read, Perdiccas' plan, though it failed, was feasible only because of his birth as a noble Macedonian.

But we know little of Perdiccas' youth and early life, so we cannot know for certain per se, only that it is highly, highly, highly probable. Curtius says Perdiccas came from a once-royal house, Meleager disdainfully refers to his nobility. Arrian is the source for the "Son of Orontes" claim and Perdiccas' origin in Orestis (aka, Macedon), and this is corroborated by Diodorus. If we follow the widely held theory that Diodorus was working off of the lost works of Hieronymus of Cardia, seen as a sober and meticulous historian, then Perdiccas' high birth in Macedon can hardly be doubted. One may argue that Arrian, who notably followed the history of Perdiccas' enemy Ptolemy, may have falsified the claim, but for what reason? It is not brought up anywhere else, and never to slander Perdiccas, who the sources suggest ambition and personality was the cause of his downfall (the diagnosis of modern scholars concurs). If he was partially Asian, as mentioned earlier, that would surely have been mentioned more both then and now.

Furthermore, I cannot find any mention of Perdiccas ever being satrap of Armenia or related to the Orontids beyond the name of his father (if there is a reference for this, please let me know! No modern scholarly sources I have perused have spoken of it). It would seem, to me, that the names are identical by coincidence. The theory that Perdiccas was related to the Orontid line of Armenia, and simultaneously a high ranking Macedonian nobleman (which all our sources suggest) is untenable (how was Perdiccas in the court of Macedon at the age of 20 or so to hunt down Philip II's assassin?). I will add here, importantly, that all the scholarly sources I have read are in consensus that Perdiccas was son of the Macedonian Orontes, probably of the Orestian royal line, and certainly a Macedonian noble.

Another important set of questions follows; if Perdiccas was related to the ruling satraps of Armenia, why did it remain in revolt, unconquered, when he assumed control of the government in Babylon in 323 BC? If their kinsman (and former satrap) had become effective ruler of the known world, wouldn't they have surrendered, or at least signed a peace? Why did Perdiccas feel it necessary to assign Neoptolemus to subdue Armenia, if he, as a member of its old royal house, could assert his authority and bloodline over it? None of Perdiccas later actions, station, or writings about him suggest he was of the Orontid line. Perdiccas was evidently a Macedonian noble born to a Macedonian noble; this shaped his ambitions and eventually his fate. Harren the Red (talk) 15:54, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Untitled

Anyone have any idea how he is a son of Orontes? Where does this information come from? Orontes was a name of Iranic origin used exclusively by Armenians. See: Orontid Dynasty. What's odd is that Perdiccas actually ruled Armenia briefly.--Eupator 23:32, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Flounder vs. Founder

I edited the first paragraph based on the definition in Wiktionary.

Flounder is frequently confused with the verb founder. The difference is one of severity; floundering (struggling to maintain a position) comes before foundering (losing it completely by falling, sinking or failing).

Perdiccas never really righted himself. Micah.t.ross (talk) 21:44, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Did Perdiccas ever marry Nicaea of Macedon?

In your article under REGENT, last paragraph, you state

"To strengthen his control over the empire, Perdiccas agreed to marry Nicaea, the daughter of the satrap of Macedonia, Antipater. However, he broke off the engagement in 322 BC when Olympias, mother of Alexander the Great, offered him the hand of Alexander's full sister Cleopatra. Given the intellectual disability of Philip III and the limited acceptance of the boy, Alexander IV, due to his mother being a Persian, the marriage would have given Perdiccas a claim as Alexander's true successor, not merely as regent."

implying that Perdiccas and Nicaea were never married. This does not cite a reference.

In PHOTIUS, BIBLIOTHECA OR MYRIOBIBLON which I found at https://www.tertullian.org/fathers/photius_03bibliotheca.htm and is cited in the Wikipedia article on Nicaea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaea_of_Macedon) it states:

"Perdiccas, intriguing against Antigonus, called him to judgment, but Antigonus, aware of the plot, refused to appear. This led to enmity between them. At the same time Iollas and Archias came to Perdiccas from Macedonia, accompanied by Nicaea, the daughter of Antipater, with a proposal of marriage. Olympias, the mother of Alexander the Great, also sent to him, offering him the hand of her daughter Cleopatra. Eumenes of Cardia favoured Cleopatra, but his brother Alcetas persuaded him to accept Nicaea. Soon afterwards Cynane was put to death by Perdiccas and his brother Alcetas. This Cynane was the daughter of Philip, the father of Alexander, her mother being Eurydice, the wife of Amyntas, whom Alexander put to death just before he set out for Asia. This Amyntas was the son of Perdiccas the brother of Philip, so that he was the cousin of Alexander. Cynane brought her daughter Adea (afterwards called Eurydice) to Asia and offered her hand to Arrhidaeus. The marriage subsequently took place, with the approval of Perdiccas, to appease the increasing indignation of the soldiery, which had been aroused by the death of Cynane. Antigonus, in the meantime, took refuge with Antipater and Craterus in Macedonia, informed them of the intrigues of Perdiccas against him, declaring that they were directed against all alike. He also described the death of Cynane in such exaggerated terms that he persuaded them to make war on Perdiccas. Arrhidaeus, who kept the body of Alexander with him, contrary to the wish of Perdiccas, took it from Babylon by way of Damascus to Ptolemy the son of Lagus in Egypt; and though often hindered on his journey by Polemon, a friend of Perdiccas, nevertheless succeeded in carrying out his intention.

Meanwhile, Eumenes conveyed gifts from Perdiccas to Cleopatra at Sardes, since Perdiccas had decided to repudiate Nicaea and to marry Cleopatra. When this became known to Antigonus through Menander the governor of Lydia, he informed Antipater and Craterus, who were more than ever determined to make war on Perdiccas. Antipater and Craterus, starting from the Chersonese, crossed the Hellespont, having previously sent messengers to deceive those who guarded the passage. They also sent ambassadors to Eumenes and Neoptolemus, who supported Perdiccas; Neoptolemus went over to them, but Eumenes refused."

implying that he divorced her.

Could you clarify your position that they never married?

Thank you! Gemtwist61 (talk) 23:41, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

Or implying that he only got as far as engaging her and then changed his mind. Given that it is not explicitly stated that they were married but only an implication, the statement in the article should be based on what WP:Reliable sources say, not on references to primary material. Furius (talk) 10:17, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Don't know if you're still looking for an answer for this. in short, Perdiccas agreed to marry Nicaea when his powerbase was weak, right after the Partition of Babylon in 323 or within a few months of said Partition. Then, he campaigned and became much stronger; when Nicaea arrived in 321, she came at the same time Cleopatra of Macedon did. Perdiccas contemplated marrying Cleopatra, having the two sides argued to him by his advisors, but chose to marry Nicaea for now while courting Cleopatra (we don't know if there was a ceremony, but presumably? I am not well studied on ancient Greek marriages so I cannot say for certain). Then, when his kingly aspirations became clear in early 320 BC, Perdiccas full on tried to marry Cleopatra, who rejected him when she realized war was inevitable. Thus, as Justin notes, Perdiccas courted two women lavishly and in the end got neither of them, instead initiating a war that claimed his life. Harren the Red (talk) 22:56, 3 October 2024 (UTC)