Talk:Penny Arcade/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Cite 58

JUST FYI: Citation #58 (linking to PVP Comics) is no longer valid. They seem to have removed the comic that was being linked to. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.164.47.3 (talk) 20:52, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Popularity claims

The reference for the statement "Penny Arcade is among the most popular webcomics currently online" does not, in fact, seem to back up this claim. The statement that Penny Arcade is the most popular is in the context of an article about gaming webcomics, not webcomics in general. The popularity of Penny Arcade relative to all webcomics is not discussed. 70.171.53.143 06:40, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair Use Image Tag

I'm thinking the image used on the page needs to be tagged with Comic panel. I'm going to change it if nobody has any objections. cpritchett42 01:01, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Characters

The Merch often is connected to a comment that kids should buy merchandise even if it requires stealing from their parents. This is a reference to a children's show in which the star gave similar advice during an episode and was thus cancelled shortly after.

I'm intrigued by this. What was this mysterious children's show? --Funkmistress 17:38, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

It was Soupy Sales.--SarekOfVulcan 00:12, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps in light of the Snopes article, change "canceled" to "suspended".--Kinglink 20:19, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

What about the character Hector?

Gabe's cat is named Thomas Kemper, after the root beer.

Twisp is the cat, and Catsby is the devil. Yes, that's counterintuitive, that's probably the point. But in their second appearance, the devil addresses the cat as "Twisp". http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2004-04-07&res=l

Ohh, thanks for the clarification... I guess it makes sense, for Twisp and Catsby. - DropDeadGorgias (talk) 16:21, Apr 28, 2004 (UTC)

Is there any source for Thomas having an MCSE? Thanks, Meelar 19:12, 28 May 2004 (UTC)

It took me forever to find this: http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=1999-02-05&res=l . I love fridays :) Apparently, he may or may not be certified, depending on which character you believe. ALSO, it is referenced as Tycho's cat in this strip... but this is one of the really early strips... - DropDeadGorgias (talk) 19:47, May 28, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks very much. Meelar 19:49, 28 May 2004 (UTC)

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"Disambiguation"

Probably sounds stupid to some, but added quotes around the reference to Jesus Christ, as it could possibly attract a great deal of controversy and "soap-boxing" if certain people got wind of it, and if not then handled adroitly. I here hope the change of simple quotes and the words, "in context of", does so. --4.225.18.213 09:19, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I added in the fact that Tycho is not actually Holkins' alter ego, as he himself has previously stated. And that that is merely an assumption of the fans. Anthony 12:58, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Original penny arcades

Maybe we should move this article to Penny Arcade (web comic). After all, there was a such thing as a penny arcade before this series (the short films and pinball machines of long ago), and that doesn't have its own article yet. We could turn this page either into a page for that or a disambiguation page -- [[User:LGagnon|LGagnon]] 03:00, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

True... another victim of the slashdot ratio. - DropDeadGorgias (talk) 03:30, Aug 1, 2004 (UTC)

The title of an article on penny arcades wouldn't be capitalized. — Gwalla | Talk 01:46, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

True, but typing "penny arcade" into the search bar brings you to this article. -- [[User:LGagnon|LGagnon]] 02:01, Aug 26, 2004 (UTC)

That's just because there's no article at Penny arcade and our "Go" is smart enough to mess with capitalization if there's no direct match. That's where the info on the pinball thing should be. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 10:21, Aug 26, 2004 (UTC)

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Overlinking

Aren't we overlinking to PA strips? There really isn't a need for so many links to the same web site in the article. -- [[User:LGagnon|LGagnon]] 22:51, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC)

There are a lot of links, but they're mostly confined to the Recurring Characters, where they serve as handy guide to the characters mentioned as well as some good examples of the variety of humor and artwork found in the strip. NJM 12:13, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

It's ok to have some, but let's not put in more than is needed to help explain the characters. We don't need every single appearance of each minor character, which is what some editors seem to be trying to add in. -- LGagnon 03:16, Feb 7, 2005 (UTC)

I realize this talk section is quite old, but I very much agree. I will trim out some of the overlinking soon if no one objects soon. It's becoming very difficult to edit, and easy of editing is one of the major purposes of having a Wiki! —HorsePunchKid→龜 23:18, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

I have trimmed out most of the links from the "characters" section in this revision. This was definitely the most overlinked part of the article. I'll let this sit for a while before trimming anything else out. —HorsePunchKid→龜 20:50, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

I just included a couple of links when I added to the Cardboard Tube Samurai section. When you can link to examples that are directly related to what you're writing about, it just seems natural to include links. "Don't just take my word for it; here's proof." I thought that hyperlinking was one of the main points of Wikipedia and the internet in general serving as one mind-blowingly colossal database. I don't think it should be discouraged. And I hope this isn't a problem. Druff 21:48, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

That's fine, certainly! The problem before was that there were practically half a dozen links for every little bit of information about every character who has ever appeared in the strip. It was to the point where it was getting difficult to even read the information that was there in some cases. If we want to include absolutely ever reference to every character, it would probably be easier to just link to a Google site search for the character. —HorsePunchKid→龜 23:08, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Maybe move the "characters" section to the end. Jabrwock 18:44, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

PAX

perhaps a PAX mention seeing as it will may soon be yearly like Childs Play.

Incorrect information restores

Tycho isn't a real person, and the comic is only drawn by Gabe. This is a FACT. Why does this article lie?

View any recently made comic from them and look at the copyright message on it. It'll say "copyright 2005 Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins". The article is not lying. -- LGagnon 21:40, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)

"Penny Arcade is a web comic written and illustrated by Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins. It is among the most popular webcomics currently online. It debuted on November 18, 1998.

"The strip features the two authors' cartoon alter egos Jonathan Gabriel (a.k.a. Gabe) and Tycho Brahe, respectively, who spend much of their time playing computer and video games and commenting on them."

Note that Gabe and Tycho are cartoons that are associated with the two creators. Yes they are cartoons, but the names and avatars are also associated with the two authors. (The authors look absolutely nothing like the characters, but I'm guessing a personalities correspond?) I suppose this could be clarified as the current text and bolding could probably be clearer. Sketchee 22:33, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)

I understand from both reading slashdot's interview with krahulik and holkins that krahulik illustrates and holkins writes the material (ref: http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/26/003251&tid=188&tid=133&tid=11&tid=10).

Also, to review the latest comic (as of April 17, 2005), note how Tycho comments that Gabe's artwork is subpar, thus preventing them from winning an Eisner. In return, Gabe comments on Tycho's frequent use of profanity in his writing.

Crossovers

Does this section really need to be here? Virtually every web comic has done a penny arcade crossover at some point. IMO, none of these are really notable enough to be listed here. -- Tocky 30 June 2005 08:57 (UTC)

Agreed, though we could replace the list with some form of mention of the several crossovers that are done. -- LGagnon June 30, 2005 12:52 (UTC)

Painkiller

I added a link to Penny Arcade's comic strip found on the Painkiller Website (downloads section) to the "Other Works" section. P.H. - Kyoukan, UASC 20:59, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Marriage proposal

It appears that Krahulik proposed to his current wife, Kara (mentioned in the article) in a PA sstrip This is probably worth mentioning in the article, but more information to give it some context would be helpful. (Edit: This is already mentioned in the Mike Krahulik article, so I'll go ahead and make a note of it in this article as well.) --LostLeviathan 09:21, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

PAX 2005

I've updated the paragraph concerning Penny Arcade Expo 2005, and made some small modifications to the paragraph on PAX04.

What About The Bench??

From Everything2.com: "The site, www.penny-arcade.com, also spawned The Bench, an 'open source' comic which can be found at www.thebench.org. The openness comes from the ability of anyone on the net to create and post a new strip, usually starring Gabe, a squirrel, and a park bench. Hijinks galore!" That link no longer works and there are no archives online at the moment, as far as I can tell. Closest thing is one guy's personal archive of his contributions (here). I think it should at least go in the PA article, but I'm not sure where to put it, or how to catigorize it! Any ideas? --Schwael 16:17, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Source of FBI letter

I know you may not agree with blogs as a credible source, but when that source is a consistently credible source of Jack's letters, mainly because Jack CC's the site's author on a regular basis, I think it qualifies as credible.

The livejournal account in question is the site of the http://www.gamepolitics.com news. The author is an editorial writer for the Philidelphia Inquirer.

For some reason, Jack Thompson loves to email Dennis (the site's author) copies of stuff he's sent out to various politicians, news media, and others. Jabrwock 22:05, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Fry guys

Are they notable enough for a separate mention?

Or would putting them in the article cause them to track me down and deal with me?--SarekOfVulcan 00:16, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

MouseWax Crossover

I read both Penny-Arcade and MouseWax, and I find this to be rather funny: [1]

It might not be light-hearted enough to include in the cross-over section, however.

Gunslinger47 08:24, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia mentioned

(and not flatteringly) in today's rant. Not sure it bears mentioning in the article (by any means!!) but did want to share. ++Lar 12:43, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Sounds like little more than sour grapes about a VfD. The comic itself is funny, though.204.0.197.190 15:46, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Why not mention the rant in the article? —Quirk 17:49, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

They rant about a lot of stuff. A month from now, it'll be forgotten and insignificant, unless some really big trouble starts because of it (more like the heads of Wikipedia make a statement back, not like how the He-Man page is currently under constant vandalism). Viewdrix

I believe the subject of the comic was the scandal about "joke articles" that had that journalist rant about wikipedia being a haven for false information, because someone had made a joke article about him saying he was involved in the Kennedy assassination. So it would be funny if Skeletor was posting false info about He-Man. :) That and the whole rant about He-Mac & Pokemon articles being immensely detailed with nit-picky info because they were being written by fanboys. Jabrwock 19:38, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

His rant is funny, but it's also about pretty obvious issues that Wikipedia's always had. It requires constant maintenence and a given piece of information might not be there at a given time--it's just the nature of the beast.

Ah, didn't see this discussion before adding the end of the rant to the article.--SarekOfVulcan 22:52, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I came in here looking for just this... today's rant seemed somewhat whiny and condescending as hell. Sort of saddening but I still like the comic too much to give a hoot. Seadragon 02:44, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

I wouldn't add anything about the rant, as Tycho rants about a lot of stuff (unless we start seeing a lot of negative wikipedia stuff from him). I loved the comic today, though I am very tired of people attacking Wikipedia for errors, without taking heed to the fact that people can upload worse stuff to personal websites. Tycho does bring up a good point however, that a lot of first time vistors, upon realizing that anyone can edit the article, don't realize that Wikipedia is 'serious'.--SirNuke 03:08, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, his points were:

1. The editorial guidelines on acceptable content (such as what is or is not fancruft) appears to him to be totally arbitrary, and when compared to other articles on Wikipedia, they also appear to have numerous double-standards.

2. A number of "elite" Wikipedia contributors and editors hold excessively high opinions of themselves and their work, creating an air of pseudo-intellectual snobbish elitism.

3. The fact that anyone can edit and create articles places the information on Wikipedia at the mercy of vandals, POV editors with agendas, and those who do not check their facts. This condition places the validity and accuracy of the information contained in the articles completely in doubt. The only way to combat this is by constant third-party monitoring and fact-checking, which would appear to be an exercise in futility.

I gotta admit, I find myself agreeing with him. --Paul Soth 05:16, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Me too. Avalon Bound

1 and 2 are just whining. 3 is a problem, but it is under control. If ever Wikipedia is under such attack that babysitting it is "an exercise in futility", then we will simply alter the rules on editing in order to protect the content. You're probably aware that anonymous editors have recently lost the ability to create new articles. They can be restricted further if it becomes necessary, but right now it isn't. Melchoir 06:09, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

If you haven't seen it yet, check out the Wikipedia:Semi-protection policy, which (though not implemented technically yet) has recently been promoted to official status. —HorsePunchKid→龜 2005-12-17 06:13:03Z

1 and 2 aren't "just whining". They are real problems Wikipedia has. 3 is not "under control"; when you have pictures of penises that appear intermitently in random articles (like recently in the Moonlightning TV series page), I'd say the problem is not "under control". I'm not a Penny Arcade fanboy, and I can't stand half of their rants, but in this case Tycho has a point.201.235.81.75 06:21, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Strongly disagree on all three points.

1 is mildly true, but certainly not to the point of being debilitating. The information is there. Some of the guidelines do indeed seem contradictory, however, in the event that it actually becomes a serious problem, the community usually works it out, and quickly too.

2 is no more worse here than ANY other internet community, and certainly an amazingly deal less than the overwhelming majority. In my experience, the long-time contributors often act with tact and diplomacy that I NEVER see among equally highly-respected members of other web communities. Furthermore, Wikipedia's basic concept itself (allowing anyone to contribute) automatically makes it less elitist than any other academic enterprise I know.

3 depends on your definition of "under control," but in the several years that I've used Wikipedia (I only started editting recently), I've come across vandalism very rarely, and seriously disturbing vandalism almost never at all. Especially important to remember is that vandalism rarely has that much of a negative impact at all in the first place. So someone put a MS Paint penis in, or wrote "Hi Mom." Delete, revert, move on. 99.99% of the time, the information is reliable. Try getting that anywhere else on the web.

On a side note, I'm a BIG PA fan, even if I'm really disappointed in hearing Tycho's comments. It seems like he didn't even give it much of a chance. -- Hinotori 11:35, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

2 is a problem that a lot of people run into a lot of the time. The admin community is cool a lot of the time, but i sometimes feel they need to allow time for an article to develop. --CalPaterson 15:54, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I have the uncanny feeling that Tycho has a bit of a swollen head from having legions of fanboys worshipping at his feet, and having his sacred text deleted by filthy commoners has resulted in long-standing simmering resentment of Wikipedia. He's just parroting what the general Antipedia crowds are mouthing right now; Melchoir pretty much states the sane position above. He's just whinging. Ignore him and he'll go away.

I support not adding info about this rant to the article. I merely mentioned it here in talk because I found it interesting and wanted to share and this seemed the logical place. ++Lar 15:16, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

I also support making no mention of this in the article. It may mean something to us as Wikipedia contributers, but it will mean little to nothing to people who are just interested in reading about Penny Arcade.--Daveswagon 06:35, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Response to 201.235.81.75 above. -- Hinotori 11:35, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't read Penny Arcade, and certainly won't start now, but point 2 (pseudo-intellectualism) seems hilarious coming from Tycho. He needs to put the thesaurus down. The whole posting seems like sour grapes about some self-promotion he posted here getting reverted. Does anyone know what it was? Pfalstad 16:22, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

These are my thoughts exactly, Pfalstad. Gerry Holkins should be the last person to throw stones. I too would be interested in knowing where his true angst came from: was it the Kennedy assassination bit? Or did he himself do something? -e- 14:38, 21 December 2005

The people who run Wikipedia suck. The site itself is great. The people, however, are not. They make vandalism seem like a hanious crime and try to rub their sucess in your face. I'm deleting the image/caption. Also, what makes the comic so much more special than any other PA comic? I'm telling you, it's Wikipedia trying to say 'ZOMG PA KNOWS WHO WE ARE!'.

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Kingpin1055 I think it's a little bit of an assumption to assume that Gerry made that page in relation to some sore spot with something that might or might not have happened on his own Wiki page. Penny Arcade doesn't pull any punches and is out to parody everything and anything... I think he was just highlighting the fact that the system is open to abuse... I found it funny and ringing true. There might be a bit of overanalysis of the comic strip in question going on. Just accept it as a pop culture reference and nothing damaging or slanderous.

Hidden strips?!

Hi folks!
Some strips aren't available in the archive page, like

• http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/1999/19990820h.jpg
• http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2000/20000117h.jpg
• ...

Anybody knows, while are they hidden?

--Fellow 14:40, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

No, they're not hidden strips. I remember reading these a few years ago, but lately PA have been having problems with the navigation skipping strips. These two must be among those that are being skipped. I was actually recently at Disneyworld and the tram ride from the card parks really put me in mind of that comic.

--Gary McEnroe 20:18, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Collected to-do of PA history

These mostly pertain to PA history before it hit the really big time:

1. thebench.org which is of course now down, but PA used to archive certain bench strips

2. donation incentives, from bonus wallpapers to...

3. that special project where Gabe tried to draw a John Woo strip.

4. Dr. Linkenstein

5. the old "other stuff" page, with the supposed alaska tourist brochure, the PA flash game, and, um...the PA halloween and PA xmas strips, among other things.

6. most newsposts prior to 2002 are missing

7. other PA promos like a CD containing the full PDF of the first book

Please, feel absolutely free to add to this list. And to dig on archive.org.

Asdfff 10:53, 26 January 2006 (UTC)asdfff

He-man strip

86.3.214.143 has taken out the strip twice. I believe the strip is relevant as it does show the wide breadth of topics that PA covers and, specifically, is a good example of how reading the news post helps the strip make more sense (as referenced in the article). The strip itself is also a light-hearted, relevant way to illustrate interaction between Wikipedia and the rest of the web (a fringe benefit). I don't see any compelling reason NOT to include the strip, but I do see a few good reasons to do so, so I'm putting it back in. -- Hinotori^{(talk)|(ctrb)} 09:16, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

I'd also like to point out that I removed the statements in the caption that suggested the POV that the strip was designed to encourage vandalism (something I doubt, and has no place in the article, image or otherwise). -- Hinotori^{(talk)|(ctrb)} 09:18, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

As regards to the He-Man comic, we should Wikipedia:Avoid self-references. There are many other comics that demonstate the wide range of subjects PA covers. 86.3.214.143 18:07, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

I think the intent of WP:ASR is different than the way you're using it here. As I understand it, we are to avoid self-references in the same manner that someone would avoid writing in the first-person while writing a paper. There is nothing wrong with mentioning Wikipedia in a third-person sort of way, and WP:ASR explicitly says this. I quote:

the article may well discuss Wikipedia as an example, in a neutral tone, without specifically implying that the article in question is being read on — or is a part of — Wikipedia.

I believe that's a very similar example to the one here. Again, I don't see any compelling reason against featuring the strip, despite a few good reasons to. However, I have no intention of starting a revert war, so I'd like to see your thoughts on this. -- Hinotori^{(talk)|(ctrb)} 00:45, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I think the Skeletor/Wikipedia strip should be incuded. HotWings 02:06, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree.--droptone 16:29, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

But why? There are plenty of other comics that demonstrate what this comic does. Why do we have to use this one? WP:ASR does indeed state that's it's okay to reference wikipedia if we have to, but we don't have to in this case. Why do we have to use a comic that prompted multiple vandalisim of Wikipedia?

I have to agree that the concensous appears to be against me, but I am no futher in understanding why this is the case. Frankly, I'm confused. 86.3.214.143 16:41, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

The Skeletor/Wikipedia strip isn't in the article as of the time of writing this comment, but if it is added again, I feel it should be kept. Penny Arcade is a huge webcomic, and I'd have thought it would be obvious that - once a Wikipedia strip was made - plenty of PA readers would vandalise pages for larks. Surely it's died away by now anyway, it was two months ago. I don't see the harm in keeping the strip. Unless Wikipedia encourages its users to pursue censorship of negativity towards the project? I agree with Hinotori, the strip should be included. --Gary McEnroe 17:23, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Actually, it hasn't died away yet. But that's besides the point: Why this strip? 86.3.214.143 00:02, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I think I already gave a few reasons as to why I think this particular strip should be kept. It isn't just a good example, it's also an illustration of intertextuality on the internet. It shows the interaction between Penny Arcade and other websites without taking up article text to do so. It also shows how Penny Arcade strips are often connected directly to such interactions and events, as is shown by reading the associated news post. WP:ASR doesn't say that we can reference Wikipedia only when we have to, it says we can when it's relevant; and the strip is clearly relevant. The example WP:ASR uses is writing about Wikipedia as a sample of online communities; obviously Wikipedia isn't the only online community out there, but because it is a good example, it may warrant use in the article. In the same way, the strip about Wikipedia shows Penny Arcade's broad subject matter, the scathing satire that they use, and the topics that they often address (internet related subjects as well as video games).

I think a better question is why not this strip. As I said earlier, I can see some clear reasons why including it is a good thing (however small or large), but none for why it is a bad thing. I hate to reduce something like this to a net gain/loss scenario, but it seems like common sense to me

-- Hinotori^{(talk)|(ctrb)} 00:05, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

It seems that consensus is in favor of putting the strip back in. I'm going to take the liberty of doing so. If anyone objects, feel free to come back here and discuss. -- Hinotori^{(talk)|(ctrb)} 11:10, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

If the strip is removed again, I suggest we have a vote to decide once and for all if the strip should be kept or not, and that decision should be final. If the general consensus is that the image be removed, so be it. But at the moment it seems to be in favor of keeping the strip. --Gary McEnroe 16:51, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Ethics?

Penny arcade's creators have been accused of having ethical issues lately. Promoting blizzard's WoW, working for blizzard, getting linked from WoW's page, then bashing EQ2, saying they're not "corporate shills," etc. Something like that. I haven't followed it too closely. But PA has a huge amount of influence, with all of its readers...

http://www.squidi.net/blog/2006/blog06.02.php#06.02.18 http://aggrome.blogspot.com/2006/02/aggro-arcade.html

I generally wouldn't trust squidi to be valid in anything he says pertaining to PA. He has too much bad blood in him over the previous debacle. The second link may have some valid points, but he seems to be willingly ignorant that PA will advertise games that it enjoys, and if they enjoy a game, they're going to mention it. --Setrajonas 20:19, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

At risk of sounding pedantic, Gabe is the one who would come across as trying to promoting WoW over EQ2. Tycho appears to have stopped playing it for the moment, but I may be mistaken. He certainly doesn't talk about it that much anymore, and I seem to recall reading something to the effect of the game losing its grip on him. But as you rightly said, PA will advertise games they enjoy, and they don't enjoy EQ2. --82.40.83.157 22:01, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

SOE Krispy Kreme Joke

Since this really isn't going to make it to the page I thought it would be funny to mention

March 1st 2006 Penny Arcade releases comic Waste Sensation. The comic comments on SOE and the recent news of a new MMO collaboration with Jim Lee. Gabe asks Tycho, "What if Krispy Kreme teamed up with someone's asshole to put shit in donuts?" This analogy pokes fun at the notion of SOE and Jim Lee working together on a MMO project.

SOE read the comic and this was their response:

Donut Prank 1

Donut Prank 2

Donut Prank 3

Donut Prank 4

1,200 Krispy Kreme Doughnuts

--Microbefox 01:49, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

I would love if this could be worked into the page somewhere, eventually. Maybe if things like this continue to happen often a section dedicated to memorable moments, or reactions to comics, could be setup. Tigermave 09:02, 2 March 2006 (UTC)