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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 13 January 2022 and 25 April 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Poglet0027 (article contribs).

Pekmez Kola

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I think Pekmez Kola stuff is not appropriate for an encyclopedic article.Ugur Olgun 19:47, 8 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merger Discussion

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CLOSED
Reject merging of Petimezi to Pekmez article per weak consensus.  Not done per @Pratyeka: whose comments oppose merging; it would be helpful if Pratyeka would follow through with his suggested changes to affected article(s). The other article mergers can be discussed again if someone feels motivated to re-propose (in a new section below) at some future time. Non-Administrative closure-- GenQuest "Talk to Me" 00:17, 15 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Formal request has been received to merge: Petimezi, Grape syrup, and Defrutum into Pekmez; dated September 2014; discuss here:

=>Petimezi
Don't merge: It seems petimezi is apparently the Greek version and refers explicitly to traditionally processed grape must, whereas pekmez can refer to any molasses-like syrup from reduced fruit must. A 'see also' or navbox 'Musts' might be a better solution. prat (talk) 07:05, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
=>Grape syrup
=>Defrutum
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Merger again

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Sorry I didn't see this discussion earlier.

WP policy says that articles are about things and ideas, not about words. What are the things in this case? They are generic fruit syrup and specific fruit syrups, namely grape syrup, pomegranate syrup, mulberry syrup, date syrup, carob syrup, etc.

There seems to be ample material for a specific article on grape syrup or molasses (whatever the title ends up being). It has, after all, been used in ancient Greece (epsima), modern Greece (petimezi), ancient Italy (defrutum), Italy (vincotto, mosto cotto, or sapa/saba), Croatia (varenik), Turkey (üzüm pekmezi), the Levant (dibs al-ʿanab), etc. The articles have a lot of content with a lot of overlap (they all seem to mention defrutum, for example), the generic article on grape syrup doesn't have much to add, and the local variants would fit well into a generic article. I see no reason to split this product into national articles.

Now it happens that in some languages, there is a generic word, e.g., pekmez in Turkish or dibs in Arabic (or for that matter molasses or syrup in English), which can also refer to other kinds of fruit molasses if not specifically called grape pekmez (üzüm pekmezi) or dibs (دبس العنب). That is not a problem. Remember, articles are about things, not words. The generic article on fruit syrup doesn't have much content yet, but it should remain as the umbrella article. Starting from that, grape molasses can cover the grape kind, pomegranate molasses is currently covered under pomegranate juice; carob syrup (χαρουπόμελο in Greek) is covered under the carob plant; and date honey has its own article. If it turns out that the grape molasses article gets unwieldy, we can always split it later. --Macrakis (talk) 04:03, 15 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, I was going to leave a note on User talk:Pratyeka about this, but I see that he's quit Wikipedia, so I guess we won't be getting his contributions.... --Macrakis (talk) 04:09, 15 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
As the user who originally suggested a merger, I still very much agree. If someone has the time to take on this task--an article on grape molasses that also discusses its modern and ancient instantiations throughout the Eastern Mediterranean--that would be great. The regional variants, and ancient and modern translations into national languages, for grape molasses--from modern Turkish pekmez, modern Greek petimezi, modern Italian vincotto or sapa/saba (also the word most familiar to Americans), and modern Cypriot epsima, back to Ancient Greek epsima and ancient Roman defrutum, and I'm sure many other modern and still more ancient terms--do not each require their own article.
If wikipedia had a separate article for the term for maple syrup in Mohawk, another for the term for maple syrup in Algonquin, yet another for the term for maple syrup in French Canadian, and yet another for the term for maple syrup in American English: 1) the broader picture and common/shared history of maple syrup in these overlapping cultures would not be easily evident and 2) interesting details about maple syrup contained on one of these pages would not be easily accessible to someone reading about maple syrup on another of these pages. I think the last thing we need to do on wikipedia is Balkanize (and I use that adjective intentionally) things and ideas on wikipedia by creating many articles for the same thing, each underneath the heading of the term used for that thing in each neighboring/successor nation. This artificially separates things. Piledhighandeep (talk) 05:11, 15 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
So should we go with "grape molasses" and "fruit molasses"? The problem with "syrup" is that many syrups (cherry syrup) consist of juice + added sugar, not just reduced juice. --Macrakis (talk) 06:47, 15 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It seems as though you can proceed with the merger, probably to grape molasses. There is no opposition expressed. GenQuest "Talk to Me" 15:52, 16 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"Grape molasses" seems the way to go, but there is already a grape syrup article that seems to be describing the substance we are discussing, so that article would need to be rolled-in. Piledhighandeep (talk) 06:46, 22 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This discussion seems to have dried up without a merger taking place. The merger proposal in the section above was closed without the merge tags being removed. I have now removed the merge tags on the artcles to avoid their categorization as article requiring merges from August 2014. This is without prejudice to the discussion in this section, and any user is free to make a fresh merger proposal with fresh merge tags, or carry out a bold merge(s). Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 11:27, 14 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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