Talk:Peace pipe (disambiguation)

Requested move 19 August 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn by requestor. – Painius 20:21, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Peace pipe (disambiguation) → Peace Pipe – The "Peace Pipe" page presently redirects to this page. This is in violation of WP:MALPLACED and doesn't conform with WP:PRIMARYTOPIC (see WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT). Neither Peace Pipe nor Peace pipe have a primary topic and so either one or the other should not redirect here. Since all three entries use the uppercase "P" in "Pipe", then this page should be titled simply "Peace Pipe". Speedy deletion under {{db-move}} of the "Peace pipe" page was attempted, but was reverted, which is why any such move appears to be controversial. WP:MALPLACED indicates that this page should be titled "Peace Pipe". See also Talk:Peace pipe.– Painius 02:13, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose obviously peace pipe does have a primary topic. This is a case where visibility over a capital P is very likely to send mobile readers to the wrong page. The capital P should redirect out to the (disambiguation). In ictu oculi (talk) 06:30, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I value your opinion, In ictu oculi, so I ask that you please look at this again more closely. The peace pipe redirect to which you linked is unstable since an editor contends that it should redirect to this dab page. That editor, who continues to battle over all this, says "peace pipe" is an offensive term^[1] to Native Americans because it does not adequately describe the many applications of ceremonial pipes. Moreover the target, Ceremonial pipe (Native American) is an unstable page title moved from Calumet (pipe) without consensus. Further information that may lead us to suspect that the term "peace pipe" has no primary topic is found on this talk page. So from the "mountain top" perspective of systemic bias, whether "peace pipe" has a primary topic might not be so obvious after all? – Painius 10:12, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

PS. If this move request goes through, then the lowercase "Peace pipe" redirect can target this dab page as an other capitalization and ambiguous name redirect. PS added by – Painius

Oppose and Redirect Peace pipe and Peace Pipe to Calumet (pipe) (or whatever that page may be moved to in the future), its clear primary topic. None of the other topics here rise above the obscure. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:47, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and agree with Necrothesp. older ≠ wiser 12:59, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and redirect both Peace pipe and Peace Pipe to the article on the kind of pipe, per the above. has received over 9000 views in the past 90 days (it was just moved to "Ceremonial pipe (Native American)" yesterday). In that same period, the album title "Peace Pipe" has received 108 views, the album titled "One World" (and alternately known as "Peace Pipe") has received 606 views, and the term as used in college football [http://stats.grok.se/en/latest90/Peace_Pipe_(college_football) has received 378 views. I think that with over 90% of all page views, we have a clear primary topic here. I'd be more inclined to point "Peace Pipe" to "Ceremonial pipe (Native American)" than to point anything at a disambiguation page. bd2412 T 14:32, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - "peace pipe" is a commonly-used but inaccurate and colonial term for ceremonial pipes. It's worth mentioning in the article, but should not be privileged as the name, nor should "Calumet." - CorbieV^☊☼ 15:47, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- But that's not relevant to the discussion here, which isn't about what we should call the actual article on the pipe. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:17, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Also, irrelevant but important to the commenter is why does "ceremonial pipe" need parenthetical disambiguation such as "(Native American)"? Why not just "Ceremonial pipe"? or "Pipe (ceremonial)"? Are there others in the world who make and use ceremonial pipes? – Painius 16:28, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Notes

References

^ No reliable source has been offered to support this view, and the editor contends that the offensiveness is not widely known outside the Native American population and so would be difficult to impossible to find in scholarly sources.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

[1] No reliable source has been offered to support this view, and the editor contends that the offensiveness is not widely known outside the Native American population and so would be difficult to impossible to find in scholarly sources.

[1]