Talk:Paul Ludwig Ewald von Kleist

Plot to Eliminate entire Nazi Party?

I find this sentence slightly strange: " . . . von Kleist saw that Hitler would bring calamity to Germany and plotted to capture and eliminate him and the entire Nazi party ..." [emphasis mine Mnentro 00:44, 18 July 2007 (UTC)]. After all, the entire Nazi Party was a huge organization, more than a million people, right? The wiki page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Party_Badge shows that being counted in the first hundred thousand of the Party was a distinction. A plot to eliminate that many? Wouldn't it be better to say "eliminate Hitler and neutralize the entire Nazi Party," meaning to remove the party from power? Mnentro 00:44, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008

Article reassessed and graded as start class. --dashiellx (talk) 20:11, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Strange passage

The following words appear in the article: Of note is the fact that Kleist was charged, among other things, with "alienating, through friendship & generosity, the peoples of the Soviet Union" as described in the book "Hitler's Generals" by Samuel W. Mitcham Jr. (2003). How is it possible to "alienate" people through friendship and generosity?Lestrade (talk) 02:17, 29 November 2009 (UTC)Lestrade

• At a guess, it means "alienating" them from their loyalties to the Soviet Union.

It's meaningless, needs correcting. Sounds like a translation or editing error to me. Rcbutcher (talk) 23:55, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Also, Rommel was not subordinate to Guderian in France; Rommel being subordinate to Hoth in the more northen Panzerkorps. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sangeli7 (talk • contribs) 05:24, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

I have the Mitcham and the Barnett books and hundreds of others. If you don't have or have not read them, then what are you doing removing my contributions? This is why I will NOT make any contributions to wikipaedia. If you haven't figured it out by now, it was a "trumped up" charge by stalin & the soviet union. Remember Pz Gp Kleist operated in the Ukraine where the people essentially hated the soviet government before the war. Thousands volunteered for the Germans. And Kleist, being a decent person, did Not encourage, actually he discouraged the "commissar order" This made the soviets very unhappy when they retook the territory, and the charge was a way of getting back at the man.

It is NOT meaningless. The soviets were hell bent on "punishing" the Germans. Kleist was the highest ranking officer to die in captivity, because the soviets were out for vengeance and Kleist was not as famous as Mainstein Hoth, or Guderian. It is NOT an error in translation and does not need correcting and I would appreciate it if people would stop taking out the notation just because you haven't read the book, or at least its chapter on Kleist.Cadillacmike (talk) 05:01, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

"alienating, through friendship & generosity, the peoples of the Soviet Union”. A extraordinary claim, sourced to MITCHAM. Unless Mitcham has the complete verdict, I don't think that this has any relation with reality. Maja33 NL (talk) 12:01, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

No further information about this strange passage. I deleted it. Maja33 NL (talk) 19:27, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Although Mitcham is a problematic source, I think that passage is a possible explanation for why Kleist got off so lightly. This is a Field Marshal, the highest rank possible in the Wehrmacht, who commanded Army Groups that occupied Soviet heartlands. Kleist being captured by the Soviets and NOT sentenced to death or even life imprisonment, I think is quite strange. On top of that, he was captured by the Yugoslavs and was only sentenced to 15 years. That must say something about his character, his rule of occupied territories as well as his treatment of civilians, which some other sources suggest is more "mellow" compared to other Wehrmacht commanders like Reichenau. Meeepmep (talk) 13:11, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Alienating the populace through friendship and generosity is not just being nice it was what the soviets would claim that someone was trying to subvert the nation and trick people into thinking they were good. Its pretty similar to their vague charges of anti soviet behavior. 67.253.26.77 (talk) 17:10, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Incorrect passage

It mentions he was charged in soviet Russia & Yugoslavia for war crimes. He was charged in Yugoslavia for war crimes his charges in Soviet union were "alienated through mildness and kindness the population of the Soviet Union." Here are a few citations This book here on page 422 MacDonogh, Giles. After the Reich: The Brutal History of the Allied Occupation. p. 422. ISBN 9780465003372.

Also various other sources also support it

7Prefix7 (talk) 21:40, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

7Prefix7, has MacDonogh the complete verdict? What is his scouce? I can't find anything on Google books. "alienating, through friendship & generosity, the peoples of the Soviet Union” is an extraordinary claim. And http://ahoy.tk-jk.net/GermanFieldMarshalsWW2/EwaldvonKleist.html is just a webpage without any references. Killing civilians and prisoners of war are war crimes. Maja33 NL (talk) 14:57, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

I found MacDonogh "After the Reich: The Brutal History of the Allied Occupation" in the Internet Archive Library. Page 422, note 124 :S.W. Mitcham "Kleist" (page 259) in Barnett's (ed.) "Hitler's Generals".

I also found "Hitler's Generals" in the Internet Archive Library. Page 259 & 260, note 25 : C.R. Davis "Von Kleist : from Hussar to Panzer Marshal" (page 17), 1979. Lancer Militaria, Houston, Texas.
I couldn't find "Von Kleist : from Hussar to Panzer Marshal" on Google preview or in the Internet Archive. I found a synopsis on Abebooks.co.uk: "An overview , in several hundred photos, of the life and career of the only German Field Marshall to die in Soviet Russian captivity". We need a better source for this extraordinary claim. Maja33 NL (talk) 07:27, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

References

book citation erroneous

Samuel Mitcham's book of 1988 (paperback 2001), "Hitler's Field Marshals", does indeed contain biographical details on Ewald von Kleist. A book with the title "Hitler's Generals" by Corelli Barnett appeared in 2003, but I am uncertain how much discussion might be devoted to von Kleist. Also worth noting is "The Nuremberg Interviews Conducted by Leon Goldensohn", edited and with an introduction by Robert Gellately, Knopf, 2004. Here are collected a broad selection of surviving transcriptions of conversations by an American psychiatrist with defendants and witnesses at the International Military Tribunal. Von Kleist appeared as a witness. Wikksg (talk) 18:49, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Let's see, by your explicit admission you HAVE NOT read the Barret book, yet you state there is an erroneous citation?!?!?, Why don't you get it and read the chapter on Kleist, and THEN you can make such statements. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cadillacmike (talk • contribs) 05:08, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Erroneous decoration mentioned

Among his non-German honours Kleist is credited with the Order of Merit of the Republic of Hungary. However Hungary was never a republic until the (vacant) Kingdom of Hungary was ousted by the Soviet sponsored Communist regime at the end of World War II and the Order was not founded until 1946 and was abolished in 1949 - by which time Kleist was a prisoner of war in Yugoslavia and ultimately the Soviet Union. I question this, is this not a confusion with a Royal Hungarian award?Cloptonson (talk) 19:43, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

I agree, it doesn't make much sense. Most be, like you said, confused with Royal Hungarian Award. I might begin an expansion of this article sooner or later. Well spotted. Jonas Vinther • (speak to me!) 01:56, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Generaloberst v. Kleist (cropped).jpeg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:22, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

No mention of Dunkirk in 'Invasion of France' section

Kleist was the one who first requested a pause from Rundstedt to rest & resupply, which was approved by Hitler and allowed the massive Dunkirk evacuation, possibly winning the war for the Allies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.78.3.130 (talk) 14:51, 12 August 2019 (UTC)