Talk:Paul Hart (photographer)

Print runs

Sarah Crozier, you wrote that each of the printings of Hart's books was of so many copies. When I asked about this, you responded by removing the numbers. But I'm still interested. How did you find out these numbers? -- Hoary (talk) 22:43, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Books in libraries

Sarah Crozier, the larger galleries (art museums) have libraries that house tens of thousands of photobooks. Hart's photobooks were published recently, hundreds at a time. It seems to me unremarkable that certain of these libraries possess copies of these photobooks. Appearance in this or that library of this or that photobook is not something that's noted in Wikipedia articles about other photographers. (Or anyway, I don't recall having encountered any such articles.) Please explain here either (A) why Wikipedia articles about photographers should list which photobook is in which library (a function performed by WorldCat), or (B) why Hart's photobooks should be treated by Wikipedia in a different way from the photobooks of other photographers. -- Hoary (talk) 22:28, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Sarah Crozier, I suppose that this edit means you agree. -- Hoary (talk) 12:26, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

The award business

This is, I think, a modest and scrupulously compiled draft about a photographer who, as it happens, I hadn't previously known of. Dewi Lewis is an excellent publisher and it's not easy to have a photobook published there. Lewis has published four by Hart, and for me this constitutes notability.

So far so good. However, there's a matter of awards. I, in Tokyo, am surprised to learn that Hart has won something called a Tokyo International Foto Award. Japan has quite a few photography awards but I'd never heard of this one. TIFA's website is in English only, and prices are in dollars. (Reality check: Here we speak Japanese and trade in yen.) There's little sign in the website that this has anything to do with Tokyo, though this page does vaguely suggest a cancelled plan to exhibit in some place identifiable as this (in Shibuya). TIFA, wherever/whatever it is, makes very many awards (many of them to luridly postprocessed material). Ditto for the "Moscow International Foto Awards" and the "PX3 Prix de la Photographie Paris". Entrants pay, the organization makes a profit, the (many) winners have something to put on their CVs, some people might be impressed by the CVs -- if all this is among consenting adults, it may be hard to object; but I don't see how the awards are of encyclopedic significance. However, I'm willing to believe that I have misunderstood something. Arch dude (with whom I recently started a related discussion), Sarah Crozier, Lopifalko, ThatMontrealIP, can any of you enlighten me? -- Hoary (talk) 23:05, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

I have stripped it back to what is most notable, apart from the awards. I've been meaning to see if an article could be written about Hart after seeing his exhibition at the Print Room at The Photographers' Gallery, which was astounding. We have no source for anything other than year of birth, not the full date of birth described. Were we assessing this at AfD, I think I would say WP:TOOSOON, but I would like longer to consider before being held to that, as it may just scrape through, especially given I have a couple of queries. WP:BASIC wants "significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject". The notable sources are the BBC (however it falls down by being mostly an interview), and Aesthetica (well focused on our subject, but not much text); I don't have access to know what was published by Black and White Photography Magazine. The subject begins to satisfy WP:ARTIST with the V&A collection, but that bar wants "represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums" and we only have one. Apart from the potential of the Wolf Suschitzky Photo Prize, which I know nothing of, the awards aren't overly notable and could simply be removed so as to tidy things up. The notable exhition is The Photographers' Gallery, albeit in its Print Room. -Lopifalko (talk) 03:19, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Yes, Lopifalko, I wish there were more sources. I wonder if there were any reviews of the Print Room event. It would seem unlikely, but I think I have occasionally seen reviews of such events (though unfortunately I forget where they were). Oh, and thank you for your extensive revisions, noticing infelicities that I hadn't noticed. -- Hoary (talk) 05:52, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Hoary, as we're not at AfD we don't need to apply the level of scrutiny required by that process, only that required by AfC and Page Curation, which I conclude it meets the bar for, though ideally I would wish for better sources. We have the BBC interview and Aesthetica; I have added The Eye of Photography (which I don;t think I have used before, but it appears to have editorial oversight); and we still don't know the kind of coverage Black and White Photography Magazine gave, which potentially could be significant. Of the new sources added by Sarah Crozier, I am not a fan of LensCulture as photographers there pay for its services, and the review of the exhibition is by "Alexander Strecker ... the managing editor of LensCulture"; and I am not much aware of Shutter Hub, but a quick look now tells me it seems a similar paid service to LensCulture. Sarah Crozier has removed the less notable awards. WP:BASIC says "If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability", so I suggest we push it out there. -Lopifalko (talk) 12:12, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Lopifalko, my take on promoting drafts is "Can I be sure that no sane and balanced person would be likely to attempt to delete this?", and "If by bad luck this did happen, can I be sure that it would get through with 'keep'?" So I do try to wear my AfD hat while looking at drafts. (It sometimes falls off. At times I've made misjudgements.) But anyway the point I was trying, perhaps incompetently, to raise here was less about this draft than about the awards business, as exemplified in this draft. This draft no longer shows it; therefore end of discussion here, perhaps. (It might continue elsewhere.) If Sarah Crozier (or you, or anybody) would like to resubmit this and nobody beats me to okaying it, I'll happily okay it. -- Hoary (talk) 12:54, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

I infer from this edit by Sarah Crozier that she agrees too. So I suppose that the matter is settled, in this draft at least. -- Hoary (talk) 12:54, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

In French

Reclaimed. Stockport: Dewi Lewis, 2020. ISBN 978-1-911306-63-4. With an introduction by Isabelle Bonnet published in English and French. 1st edition: 2020.

Is there a separate, French-language edition, or can we simply delete the word "published"? -- Hoary (talk) 13:12, 16 October 2020 (UTC)